Flash 18 review and Mt Goode's Magladon Traverse

OK, I have already taken some shite for suggesting that a $30 REI "kiddies" pack would be a good alpine climbing pack. As good as anything available at any price for what we are using them for.

I've now been using one for just over 6 months and stand by the suggestion. After making this post one of our local "stone killers" sent me an email in part to support my suggestion. Dan was kind enough to write the bulk of this review which is quoted much lower downw the page and high lighted.

For my part I have used the Flash 18 in the alpine on ice and rock. I've taken it on two long ridge traverses and more bush whacking than I care to remember this summer. It has become my "go to" climbing pack. I don't want to carry any more than I can get into this thing. Which has proven to be more gear than you would first think possible.

I have a 21" back. That may be not be normal @ 6"1" but not deformed either. Most of the current "love fest" small alpine sacks don't come any where near fitting me. And a poor fitting pack is just as annoying as a poor fitting pair of shoes imo. No matter who tells you "it" fits.

Seriously, this is a very good, super light, alpine pack for my own needs. Pack body is 140-denier ripstop nylon, remarkably abrasion resistant for such light material, polyurethane coating offers weather resistance. Almost anything is repairable with Seam Grip. And it is 9.2 oz total weight. You choices are a $30 for a pack that fits or $150 for from the Gucci crowd that doesn't and isn't any lighter. Easy decision on my part.

Update- May 2011
6 months later and I am using the Flash 18 ski touring and still loving it.  That is a set of 9# skis and binding and you never feel them on the boot pack.  Not the best pack for the job but not the worst I have used either.

Not just me taking this pack out. Dan Hilden used one on his and Jens Holsten's repeat of the uber classic, "Megladon" on Goode. Dan's words:

"As someone who has spent a lot more time climbing and going to school than working over the years, I have often struggled to get my hands on decent gear. I once spent a week without a sleeping bag in the North Cascades because I couldn’t afford a lightweight one. I borrowed ice tools from friends and used my straight shafted third tool for some pretty tricky stuff for two years after selling mine for travelling money in Peru. My old lightweight climbing boots are held together by epoxy, caulk, and seem grip, and are better for a laugh than they are for keeping my feet warm or dry. Pretty much all the gear I own I get used or find on sale.

After soloing the Northeast Buttress of Goode in just over 24 hours from highway 20 in 2009, I knew right away that it had not been enough to show me what I wanted to find out. I had been mentally preparing myself for the climb for years and by the time I set out to do it there was no doubt in my mind that it would go. I decided to try to climb Megalodon Ridge in a single push because I really wasn’t sure that I could do it.




My partner for the trip, Jens Holsten, is a certified beast and could have finished the job even if I pulled the old Eiger Sanction move of hiding a six pack in his pack, but I knew that I would have to go lighter than I ever had before. I spent over a month fine tuning a list of what I would need to carry and how much it all weighed. Stripped down my trusty old pack (which I’m told smells like a dead animal) weighs about 2.5 lbs. I wanted something lighter and was on the lookout for a used Cilogear or Go Light or something similar when I found the REI Flash 18. I always prefer to support smaller businesses, but since the Flash was only $30 and weighs 10 oz, (9. 2 oz on the scales) I didn’t think twice before ordering one.

When I got the pack I cut off the waist belt since the load would be light, cut a piece of foam sleeping pad to slide in the hydration pocket to make it more comfortable and give me some ground insulation for unplanned bivys, and threaded thin stretch cord between the gear loops so that I could stuff a jacket or climbing shoes where they would be easily accessible. On the climb I found that the design is good and simple. The open/close system is quick and easy even with gloves on. I can’t think of any worthwhile complaints. Obviously this thing is not going to be as durable as a pack made with heavier fabric, but it stood up to quite a bit of bushwhacking without a single tear, and it is light and small enough that you will probably be climbing with it rather than hauling the vast majority of the time. Since it came from REI, I can return it if it does fall apart after a few more uses.

The day of the climb my pack held our small rack, my personal climbing gear, an extra shirt, balaclava, socks, stove, pot and fuel, my headlamp, water bag, an ice tool, rain jacket, and a lot of food. All that I needed and nothing more. In 27 hours we covered about 35 miles, gained and lost over 10,000 feet, and climbed a grade IV+ route on the biggest mountain in the North Cascades National Park."

More here on Dan's and Jen's climb:

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/977041/TR_Mount_Goode_Megalodon_Ridge#Post977041

http://jensholsten.blogspot.com/2010/09/sound-of-goode.html


REI has a rather unique way to hang the shoulder straps and make this tiny pack fit even my long back. I suspect you'll see the usual suspects copy it any time now if they aren't already. The Flash 18 is tough enough to come out of two bushwhacks unscathed that literally shredded my shins and hands. I too cut a thin piece of foam to set in the hydro pocket but left the waist strap for balance boulder hoping and climbing. Although it pays to note it weights only 10oz and I'd treat it accordingly. I have BIG plans this winter for mine. I think this pack ROCKs!

I own 5 custom made packs and two that are off the shelf. This is one of those two and I would buy another one in a heart beat if this one disappeared. Can't say that for many packs I have owned.

http://www.rei.com/product/778466

Now what you have all been waiting for, our newly discovered gear guy, "Forrest"!
If you know what to look for between the two revues it soon becomes obvious this is a great pack!





Unknown bloggers photo (thank you!) ...but a great shot of the harness!

Baruntse Dbl boot Liners?

Over the last couple of years I have been looking hard at all the available double boots for fit and performance. In my opinion the best dbl boots don't generally come with the best inner boots. The most well known after market liner, the Intuition leaves a number of things to be desired in a climbing boot. No wonder as they are ski boot liners first and formost. It is however a great inner boot if you want to ski in your Spantiks. Production inner boots that are suppose to be easily heat fit like a good ski boot liner aren't. That can result in your feet suffering no matter what kind of foot you have.

The best of the current inner boots that I have seen is a foam inner that is nylon lined on both the inside and out and made by Palau in France.

www.palau-boutique.com

Lucky La Sportiva decided to use the Palau liners for the Baruntse. I've used the Palau/Baruntse liner in my Spantiks and now again in the Scarpa Phantom 6000s. I think the Baruntse liner is better/warmer that either boot's original liner. The Palau liner is warm, but not overly thick. It is very easy to dry out, as there isn't much nylon to absorb water. They are easy to heat form by any good ski boot fitter and even easier to lace up. They are the lightest inner boot I have weighted including the Intuition or 6000's liner. The nylon lining on the inside and outside of the Baruntse inner boot makes them easy on and off in the mountains and durable compared to an all foam inner boot. Purchased directly from La Sportiva NA they are $120 a pair plus shipping. A direct comparison to everything else easily available on the winter boot market shows no down side that I can see, including the retail price.

http://www.sportiva.com/products/cat/A


Pictured here with a pair of Spantiks.




>







Spare Baruntse liners were not available last season. In limited numbers and sizes they are available now. If they don't have your size you can also get a pair put on back order by calling Rebecca.

Oct. 6, 2010
> Dane,
> Thank you for your email! We do have the Baruntse liners in size 45. We
> are in the process of updating our website and currently do have the
> Baruntse liners in stock. The cost is $120 plus shipping. I would be
> happy to place an email/phone order for the Baruntse liners. Let me know
> what you would like to do.
> Cheers!
> Rebecca Carroll
> Customer Service Representative
> La Sportiva N.A., Inc.
> 3850 Frontier Ave - Suite 100
> Boulder CO 80301
> 303.443.8710 ext 13
> www.sportiva.com

"You can't run in crampons!"

Or, "Does that guy sleep?"

Dbl click and get it in full screen.

It is true...I've made fun of YOU!

If you have worn a helmet rock climbing or a visor/face mask on ice I have likely made fun of you, at least silently, in my past.

I know, poor potty training. But it comes from honest hard labor and not getting killed..... yet.
While I almost never (never?) wear a helmet cragging on decent rock I always wear a helmet on ice or in a winter/alpine environment or on the typical limestone choss.

It is not my suggestion that you skip wearing a helmet or use me as a poster child as to when to or not to wear a helmet. Make up your own mind when you think you need a helmet and "live...or not" with that decision.

Helmets have gotten so light...the newest ones from BD and Petzl are down to ounces...literally half of my last helmet's weight.

But this isn't about helmets. The discussion is actually about face shields while climbing ice. I have to admit having more scars on my face than I care to. All of them from ice cuts. One in particular, a 1980 dinner plate on Carlsberg, knocked me out cold and cut my lip through to the gum line. Unpleasant all that to finally make Banff and getting sew up. I am not sure a face shield would have stopped the injury or brain fade but it might have helped. Either way not an experience I want to repeat.

Old habits die hard so no mask or visor for me. Well not until last season anyway. Two years ago I was finishing up the right hand side of Weeping Wall when for the first time ever, I popped a small piece of ice directly into my eye and it REALLY hurt! And I do mean REALLY hurt. I couldn't see and it hurt bad enough I couldn't climb for a few minutes. My eye was pouring tears. And it was later sore for several days. No fun on lead.


My partner that day was wearing a Petzl helmet and shield which I thought rather goofy at the time.....but not so much now. He wasn't goofy mind you, just his choice in gear was goofy from my inexperienced perspective. My first piece of damning evidence is the zebra striped bike tape he used to wrap his Nomics. '70s California hippy obviously. The fact that he has climbed a whole lot more ice that me..over a longer period time..and was still climbing harder...(the bastard!).... kept me from giving him shit about his obvious "goofiness". But I really wanted too. Right up till I poked myself in the eye!

That was my last trip for the season up north. I started looking for one of those fancy shields to add to my helmet on the drive home. "How about sliding me a pro deal on one of them fancy helmets with a visor, Jack?" "Nada."

Took me a few months and I still have a helmet without a shield but now one with as well. I pick and choose which helmet I want to use as the shield is fragile and a PIA to stuff along with the attached helmet into a pack. But I almost never go on water ice now without a shield/visor. So much for the old school label. Now I am one of the goofy ones. But I get to laugh at myself......every time all that nasty stuff bounces off my visor with every swing as I smile and "style" my way upward!

But if you show up with a wired frame football mask or looking like Freddy Krugger I'm still gonna laugh at you. Call it poor potty training.

Wrapping tool shafts?

The reason I wrap my tools almost full shaft (2" shy of the head) is I like to do a lot of high dagger position on easier alpine terrain. And I actually like climbing easier terrain with radically curved tools. I'll run my hand from the upper grip to the head of the tool to avoid as many placements as possible. Just to save strength and climb faster. A good tape job keeps the hands warmer on aluminum when it is really cold out. And I like the rubber texture over bare aluminum or carbon fiber. On steep ice I like to match on the second grip so I wrap there with better tape than Petzl supplies and wrap over the the BD Fusion/Cobra upper grip and higher on the shaft just for consistancy. While you are at it, easy enough to wrap farther up the tool and can't see that it hurts anything besides adding a bit of weight. If for no other reason, it helps me at least feel more secure.

Climbing Shooting Gallery on Andromeda a couple of winters ago in -30 temps and some deep snow was the first time I needed more insulation on the shaft for the high dagger position. Freaking cold tools that bite back and then cold hands through the powder snow to get a good stick. Not on my long list of "fun".

A quick look at several of the pictures in the blog will show a high dagger position (anyone climbing on Nomics) where a wrapped shaft will be warmer.


> What is the name of the tape that you use on your tools? I
> have been using electrical friction tape but I think there is
> something better out there more similar to the tape on the >Nomic.

You can generally buy this stuff at Lowe's, Home Depot or any big hardware store and on line.
There is a link in the comments after the post. Depending on how you wrap your tools one role of tape can do two tools. I use the tape for insulation so I use one roll per tool and throw the extra away. Stuff is fairly cheap....under $10 per roll.

Petzl Nomic tape is a little thin for my taste and not that durable but it is light in weight and sticky enough. I suspect it is the 3M Temflex.

3M Temflex #2155 Rubber splicing Tape

What I like better is similar but thicker, way stickier and offers better insulation.

Scotch brand 2228 Moisture sealing Electrical tape

3M Temflex 2155, "rubber splicing tape" is the same stuff Petzl uses but a lot cheaper in this form. One role will easily do two tools.

The better choice imo is Scotch brand 2228 Moisture sealing electrical tape. One role of 1" x 4" does one tool for me. It is heavier/thicker/way stickier than 3M and has lasted me 4 seasons so far (with no end in sight, on ice and alpine) and is always sticky, wet or dry. I use one role per tool with a tiny bit to spare on a Nomic (1" X 4') . You just need to watch what you lay the tools against 'cuz the stuff is so sticky it will wrap around anything, clothing, your other tool, helmets...you get the idea. Kinda like the climbing version of silly putty.

You don't need to tape the ends on either as it is self sealing and is easy to apply.

Nothing else even close that I have seen. 3M is cheaper and works fine. The thicker Scotch brand stuff is what I use to wrap the tools I climb with.

Scarpa Phantom Ultra?

I got an email pointing out a mistake I made identifying the "Phantom Ultra" as a "prototype Phantom 6000" in Jon Griffith's photo of Steck on le Droites. Thanks for the heads up Will!


Way beyond the sales hype. Jonathan Griffith's photo of Ueli Steck soloing the Ginat on Le Droites early in 2010 in what appears to be the super lwt version of the Phantom single, the "Ultra" which is down around 1600g in weight per pair for a 42, where the Guide is 1800g and the 6000 is 2000g in that size.





This boot is not available in North American that I can find but is in Europe and England. The over all weight is getting down to an ounce or so of the slightly more traditional fabric "silver bullet" boot, La Sportiva's Trango Extreme Evo Gortex. With a full boot gaiter though the Ultra offers much more protection in nasty, wet, cold conditions. The Ultra looks by the numbers to be lighter and LESS expensive than the Phantom Guide. That could be any where from 3 to 4 ounces per boot in a size 12us/45. Or another 8oz altogether!

Part of the weight savings is using the thinner and lighter sole/mid sole system also used on the Phantom 6000 and noted in that review earlier. Lacing inside the Ultra looks to be the same system that is used in the Guide. Slightly different material on the Ultra's gaiter for reinforcement and durability with crampons.

While making inquiries about these boots, Scarpa NA and several retailers who stock the Ultra in England gave similar replies.

"Re: The Ultra,

Boot is less stiff and less warm than the Guide. Sole is very fragile. Sole is not as durable as the Guide. Only the Guide is available in 1/2 sizes."

Me thinks they protest too much. No retailer wants to carry such a specialised alpine climbing boot in a full size run (and 1/2s) which would sell directly against the Phantom Guide even if the Ultra is $50. less expensive. I might even swallow the "less durable" issue with the boot soles as they are a lwt version also used on the Phantom 6000. Not a boot I'd use on a lot of rock but might well be a nice advantage to drop another pound off your feet on alpine ice and mixed routes where you'd be wearing 'pons anyway.

BTW, both the Guides and 6000 boots I got this year came with Gortex and Primaloft tags. Spring of next year (2011) they are suppose to be lined with "Outdry" at Steck's suggestion, replacing the time proven Gortex liner. Not a huge amount of added info but I used the new Mtn Hardware gloves that are again Steck's designs and lined with Outdry all of last winter and was happy with them. I've not seen Goretex in a glove system do as well.

"SCARPA announced they have teamed up with OutDry in order to make my all time favorite technical mountaineering boots even better. OutDry's waterproof breathable technology will appear in SCARPA's Phantom Collection for Spring 2011.





Both SCARPA and OutDry worked with renowned alpinist and speed-climber Ueli Steck on the design of the new Phantom Collection. Steck wanted a technical mountaineering boot with improved waterproofness that would cut down on the boot's "wet weight" while climbing in wet snow conditions.

OutDry is currently used in gloves from Mountain Hardwear and footwear from Lafuma among others. OutDry uses a three-dimensional laminating technology to adhere a windproof and waterproof breathable membrane to the inside of the outer most layer of shoes, boots and gloves. The permanent membrane bond creates a flawless fit with no folds, seams or the requirement for seam-sealing tape.

The waterproof breathable membrane will be laminated directly to the inner side of the K-tech boot upper on the SCARPA Phantom technical mountaineering boots. The use of OutDry in the boots also allows the addition of Primaloft for increased insulation qualities.

OutDry will be featured in all the new SCARPA Phantom styles including the Phantom 6000, Phantom Guide and the Phantom Ultra."

By the numbers:
upper S- TECH
lining : WATERPROOF - OD /
MESH
insole : FIBER - PRO XT
sun : PENTAX SPEED
Last : AG
sizes: 37-48 ( WITH 1 / 2)
weight : 800 GR (42 - 1 / 2 PAIR )

Read more and make your own comparisons:

http://it.scarpa.net/prodotti/high-altitude/phantom-ultra/


http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/08/scarpa-teams-with-outdry-for-phantom-collection.html#ixzz10iCmi1aH

Will's photos:

Nomic mods?

A number of climbers have asked about modifying the original Nomic to change the umbilical attachment point like the new generation. The following is from a post I made on a climbing forum last winter after the OR show in SLC.





One of the new features Petzl has incorporated into the newest Nomic and other tools coming out the fall of 2010 is a way to add an umbilical attachment leash without it being under your hand while climbing.

Basically what they did is drill a hole through the aluminum section the protrudes into the pommel and then mill some of the Delrin pommel away to fit sling material down both sides and out the pommel. What Petzl showed at the OR show was some pretty thin cord (2mm or something like it). Not enough for my liking, thanks. So I did the same with a thicker diameter cord that would take something more than body weight. I have been using 4mm cord that tests at 900#

Easy mod to do to the old Nomic with a hand drill and a file if need be. I used a hand drill and a mill. Much cleaner answer than what I have been using.

Original attachment




Cut Pommel



Additional 5mm hole drilled.



both sides are then counter sunk and a new cord added







New cord slotted in the pommel, "New" Nomic!








After looking at this more closely I find it hard to believe that the new Nomic pommels with the serrated "spike" won't retro fit the old tools.

While looking at the new tools (all prototypes) and taking them apart at the OR show my guess was the old Nomics will take both the new picks and the new Pommel. Although Petzl originally said no on both, my Nomic pick/hammer fit their newest Nomic (I actually fit it to their tool)...but like I said they were prototypes at the OR show. I'll have mine shortly and will up date this blog entry when that happens.

More on the use of 4 and 5mm cord.

From an earlier BD email exchange last winter when I asked about the issue of the small BD biner (worried about the sharp edged proto types that I was using. The new Production stuff has much better and rounded edges) on 4 and 5mm cord laced to Nomics with a BD Spinner umbilical.

Black Diamond said:
"Just tested this to 800lbs (single leg). No damage to the 4mm cord or our steel clip (production quality with more tumbling to the part); the bungee webbing breaks first. Then pull tested our steel biner clipped to 5mm cord, this went to 1600lbs before the cord broke."

I would also make sure to use a knot like a dbl Fisherman's in drop form instead of an Over Hand which is typical and much weaker (30% less or more?) in this application. And something like half of the original tensile strength of the rope! Easy bet the cord broke at the knot no matter what knot he was using. But worth hedging your bets here for several reasons. But 4mm seems a good compromise for size (getting it under the pommel or in your hand) and strength. Hanging on a tool is not a dynamic load. Fall far enough and require static cord and webbing to take the dynamic impact load and you'll blow through 5mm or the webbing easily.


Either way I think the newest leash attachment is a good improvement on the tools...and worth doing on the older ones if you are so inclined. It isn't much work and I don't see a down side.


For those that asked. New Nomic picks (if they are cut for the hammer) will fit the old Nomic heads with a spacer...a simple washer will work there for a spacer. If they are not cut for the hammer the pick will bolt right up as normal.

From the prototypes shown at OR this winter the Petzl hammer and adze will not work without cutting up your old head a tiny bit. They were prototypes but I suspect very close to what we will see as production.

The new Petzl in cut head is to further support the hammer and adze in use. I used a similar technique to support the CT Nomic hammer without cutting the aluminum tool head and got a lower profile and better balance as advantages.

More details and photos in the link below.



http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/947849/Searchpage/1/Main/73195/Words/new+nomic/Search/true/Re_New_Nomic#Post947849

Ice commeth!

If you haven't seen it, great video! Ignore the product speil. (or not as all three are exceptional tools ;)

More on the Spantik by Jesse Huey and Mark Westman...

Mark and Jesse on Denali's summit ridge after their quick ascent of the Slovak route, June 2010.

(Jesse is off to China so this picture was stolen from his face book account but seems appropriate here)



MOST everyone recognises the La Sportiva Spantik as the current "gold standard" in technical dbl boots.

I had originally asked Mark Westman and Jesse Huey for their comments/insights on the Spantik as I was doing a review for the new Scarpa 6000 and I like to make comparisons. Both Mark and Jesse were gracious enough to offer their thoughts on the Spantik. But then it seemed dumb on my part to bury their comments in a review on the Scarpa 6000. Thought better of it.

If you don't recognise their names take a look at that video of the Slovak route on Denali again. Both these guys have been ripping it up in the alpine for some time. I write, sitting on my ass......these two guys actually climb.... a lot!

Many thanks for allowing me to post your comments here guys! Hopefully it will help someone else down the road. And FWIW...just my opinion after a short review but I'd bet the Spantik makes a way better ski boot than the 6000.




Here is the straight story from two guys in the thick of it.

Jesse said:

"So my opinion on the Spantiks... well for one until the new Scarpa boots came out, I was under the impression that they were the best double boot out there balancing warmth, weight, and ability to climb technical terrain. That said, and not to say that any specialized alpine boot out there, was designed for skiing, these boots wrecked havoc on my feet skiing to and from our climbs... It was certainly an oversight to not properly put blister pads BEFORE the ski in where I thought I would get them. All that aside though, they climb anything you will find in the mountains incredibly well. I think it would be challenging to climb anything in the M8 category with them because of the weight and volume. The new Scarpa 6000 boots made me think about ditching the Spantiks... People capable of climbing M10 could absolutely do it in these boots (I normally use the silver sportiva trango's - fruit boots are the lamest thing I have ever seen). The low volume/light weight really surprised me. I am under the impression that the Spantiks are (probably) a hair warmer, which is certainly a concern for climbing in cold climates, where in Alaska this year on the SAR team, we saw no less than 50 people come through our med tent with frostbite. So all that said, I like my Spantiks, blisters and all, and will be taking them to China as my climbing boot. If I were to start all over though and had to buy a new pair, I may be leaning toward the Scarpa's but still haven't had a chance to try them out so cant say if they have a good fit or not.

A few things about the spantiks you could note: they are 700$ and have parts that cost 0.25$ that when they fail, your boots are hooped... I have seen this at least 3 times on out of the box spantiks.

The boot takes wear pretty quickly. The shells are durable enough, but I recommend seam gripping literally everything on them to preserve their life and making sure to change your laces often enough so that they don't break on a climb, which I have found out the hard way...."


Mark said:

"Spantik...I guess I don't nitpick gear too much, for me usually it either works or it doesn't. Having said that...

The downside: Jesse and I both got HUGE blisters from skiing uphill in these boots. First it happened on the patrol. These eventually healed but then we just got a fresh new set while approaching the Slovak on skis. While just climbing, I don't think we would have gotten them- as you know, skiing uphill especially with a sled as we has en route to 14 on our patrol often results in blisters. At least for me it does, my feet have always been susceptible.

Anyway that's about the only performance criticism I can muster and it might have happened with lots of other boots for all I know. I have fat feet and fallen arches and these were otherwise very comfortable. I summitted on the buttress and the Slovak without any sort of gaiters or overboots and my feet were warm (June 2nd in cold temps and wind, and June 23rd in warm windless weather). My feet did get extremely cold in our mid route 31 hour push but we were dehydrated and very tired so we didn't have much reserve to fight anything at that point.

The boots climbed steep ice and mixed really well and felt less "clunky" than the Nupste's, which I used for the previous five years.

I do have one substantial gripe about the design details: the plastic hooks on the speed lacing system of the inner boot are really chintzy, and I busted one off the very first time I put them on and had to send them back for warranty replacement. But sure it'll happen again. Also, the Velcro closure at the upper end will wear out in another season or so. Pretty cheap bullshit materials for a $700 boot. In addition, the little round grommet that you secure the outer laces around on my boots is already coming loose after 2 months of use, it still works for now but I'm
sketched enough that it might fail (leaving me no great options for securing the laces) that I probably will be sending these back again for warranty. So I do think these 50 cent parts being used for the execution of crucial functions of the boot is not a great feature."



---

The Scarpa Phantom 6000 review

IT'S BACK! (finally) The 2.5# dbl boot! The Scarpa Phantom 6000

I know, I know, it only took 30 years but we are finally back to a double boot that excels on technical climbing and that weighs in at a svelte 2# 10oz in my size 12 (46) feet. (Poetic license and a cleaner intro on the 2.5# since my size 12s won't make that number. )

I can drop a full pound off my size 12 feet by using these boots!
That is 6.5 off my back by the theory. But do they fit? And how do they climb?

If you missed my previous bitch fest blog post I had been laughing at how both Sportiva and Scarpa...and any one else in the business for that matter...had not yet equaled let alone duplicated the warmth, climbing ability and weight of the 1980 Kolfach Ultra @ 2# 10oz with an Aveolite inner boot. Kinda sad that even though the boots were now in the $700 range. (Buyer hint: wait, be patient and hunt around. If you do not unusual that you can buy any of them on sale for $500 or less. The 6000 went on sale for $70 off retail before I even got the review written! The Internet price for a pair of Spantiks can be as low as $500 from what I have seen.)

Boot weights (Euro size 45 or 11.5/12 US)

La Sportiva Spantik 3# .o5oz
La Sportiva Baruntse 3# 2.5oz

La Sportiva Batura (winter single boot) 2# 7oz
Kolfach Ultra w/Aveolite liners 2# 10oz (vintage 1980)
Scarpa Phantom 6000 2# 10oz

Scarpa Phantom Guide (winter single boot) 2# 7.5oz


I am told the newest boots have sex appeal galore, technology that may or may not work and fit that could go from perfect (and just as likely from reports I get) to dismal.

At the risk of repeating myself here let me back up once again. Super Gators were very good in cold weather. Plastic boots for the most part negated their use and when required out came the neoprene full over boots as the temps dropped. Never the best answer for technical climbing because of crampon fit/or no fit many just do without and risk the cold injury.

The old Phantom 6000 and the Spantik addressed the issues in different ways but basically boots that did not require another add on gaiter to keep your feet warm enough up high and out in the cold.

After seeing the newest versions of the synthetic double boots I have long thought that to gain the warmth we all generally need the boots have gotten too big physically and the fit hasn't gotten any better compared to the older leather double boots.

My preference would be a dbl boot with slightly less volume than the Spantik or the Baruntse, equally as warm and all the while dropping some weight in the process. A warm dbl boot suitable for hard technical climbing made of modern material should be able to get under 2 and 1/2 pounds in my size 12s. With a over-all outside volume closer to the old Koflach and Asolos would be well received by many needing a warm dbl boot. The most modern technology and materials should be able to make a boot of that volume, warmer and lighter that the earlier plastic boots.

One stainless Sabertooth, no bots with Petzl bails 14.2 oz
One Phantom 6000 2# 10oz

Total weight per combo is 3# 8.2oz.

That number betters my 30 year old gold standard of 3# 9oz. of Kolfach Ultra and Chouinard hinged with straps.


Add the need for a real gaiter and different sox weights for the Kolflach and the actual weight savings is even more, or what would have been 9oz or more per foot in my 45s. And a big advantage in climbing ability and warmth with the new Scarpa 6000.

Among other things the over all volume of the boot should give us a clue on the warmth of the boot but so does the quality of the insulation, how dry the insulation stays on the interior, sole insulation and what is keeping the exterior upper dry and clear of snow.

Dbl click on the picture and take a look at the Guide on the right and the 6000 on the left in the picture. The mid sole and lugs are thinner on the 6000. Heel has less material as well. The mid sole on the 6000 is totally different between the two models of boot.


The synthetic materials allow the current boot builders to keep the outer shells dry. But until now a gaiter of some sort is usually required. Several older leather single and dbl boots have had attached gaiters, San Marco, Fabino and Trappeur comes to mind off hand. Scarpa has taken the 8000m technology of a fully integral gaitor that One Sport invented in the '80s and added it to lighter weight boots while making them warmer yet.

The Scarpa Phantom line obviously has a built in, insulated outer/super gaiter that is sealed with a water proof zipper (the TIZIP) and a button snap closure in an elastic top. It is not Scarpa's first zipper rodeo. This is 2nd and maybe 3rd generation on their gaiter and zipper for the Phantom line. And they have continued to made improvements. This version is stout. Stout enough that La Spotiva copied them and are now using the same brand "TIZIP" water proof zipper for their Batura. Simple and effect. But it is still fabric and a zipper so not terribly durable in comparison to some of the old school style boots, a Nepal Evo or Scarpa Mt. Blanc as examples. Scarpa also wisely includes the special TIZIP zipper lube for its maintenance.

Let me discuss durability a bit. Many of the very best cold weather boots do two things to eliminate weight and make the boots warmer. They use a hard foam insole/midsole to help insulate from the ground up. They also make the lug pattern and sole as thin as possible, again to save weight. Scarpa uses both techniques on the 6000 and I think to good effect on this boot.

Neither technique adds durability to the boot. Put a fabric gaiter/outer surface on the boot and you have to start thinking high performance as a cost for long term durability. The nylon material used won't shed a crampon or a sharp rock for that matter. For a boot that will generally be used with crampons and on snow and ice the majority of time they should last "long enough". But they won't last as long as some of the newest synthetic dbls available. Baruntse comes to mind as the the more durable boot of the three discussed here. In my size the cost of durability is an extra full pound on my feet. But is there a difference in warmth between the Scarpa 6000 and the La Sportive flag ship, technical, dbl boots? That observation will have to wait till December I suspect. But it is going to have to be really cold (-20C and below) to feel a difference is my thought on it. If anything I have learned from using Primaloft 1 garments that thickness of the insulation these days doesn't always give you a relative idea of how warm the garment might be in actual use. And the Scarpa 6000 uses Primaloft to insulate the outer boot. Hope for the best....plan for the worst and know your own limitations when it comes to cold feet.

The Scarpa 6000 is a lower profile and more sensitive boot than the Spantik or the Baruntse. The sole and ankle flex are somewhere between the Spotiva models. Defiantly not as stiff of flex as the Spantik...more akin to the Baruntse. It will be a great technical boot on hard terrain and stiff enough for the endless 60 degree alpine ice suffer fests IF you are accustomed to the newest flexable fabric boots. It is better compared to the La Sportiva Batura and the Scarpa Phantom Guide single boots for volume and weight. You can get an idea by that comparison on how they will be on mixed :)

Hard for me to talk about any boot without making comparisons. My current dbl boots are the Spantik, Baruntse and now the 6000. By far the worst fitting inner boot for me is the Spantik. The best is the easily heat formed Baruntse inner boot. The new 6000's inner boot is obviously intended to be a VBL inner boot worn with only a thin sox. The Velcro seals the inner up tightly. Not sure about the extra bumps on the inner boot though and comfort long term. The entry system also makes it a bitch to put on and take off the inner. That entry and the surface finish of the foam inner makes it hard to get in and out of the shell as well. The Spantik's inner is fairly traditional and a lace up. My experience is that the Spantik's eyelets are not durable on the inner or outer boot. The Baruntse has a more modern lace system on the inner. Hard to break or have a failure in that inner boot. The Baruntse is the easiest of the three to use and the most durable. It is the inner I think the Spantik should have been delivered with. It fits better and is lighter in weight. The lace system more closely mimics the Spantik shell system as well but no durability issue. Nice that my Baruntse inner will fit any of the 6000 outer boot. IMO the Baruntse inner is the best of the three for fit and ease of use. It weighs only 1/2 oz more (@6 oz) than the 6000's inner (5.5oz). The Spantiks' inner boot weights 9.0oz.

6000's Velcro sealed, VBL inner boot, and removable foam insole

The 6000's inner boot? Sadly nothing good to talk about here imo. The inner is a bitch...really a bitch... to get into. Part of that is the majority of the inner boot is unlined closed cell foam. Yes, unlined foam. Bare feet and most sox will stick to the foam trying to put them on and take them off. This inner wouldn't last me one 3 week Alaska trip. I would shred it in short order even while trying to be careful. I don't doubt it is very warm......and high tech.....but durable it ain't going to be. And that 44 size insole? Yes my 45s came with a 44 size insole in the inner boot. And the inner boot fits like a 44 as well. My guess? By the fit with this inner boot in place is the 6000 will fit one full size too small. I had actually ordered a 46 the day these arrived just to cover the bases...played with my Baruntse inner boot in the outer boot and decided the 45s would NOT work for me. I ended up with a 46s. The 45 Guides fit OK although a bit narrow in the toe.

There is really only one reason to climb in a dbl. boot. It isn't the warmth generally. Get the right single boot and keep them dry inside and out and you can deal with some terribly cold temps. The problem is doing it day after day and keeping your boots dry in and out and unfrozen. A dbl. boot is the only thing that will allow you to keep your boots dry on the inside because you can dry them in your bag at night as well as keep them from freezing. So the added warmth is great but the real reason is dry boots. Dry boots and dry sox means warm feet. No one actually enjoys climbing in double boots (any of them) ...they are all huge and they are all heavy. But way less stress in the cold mountains...with a good double boot.

Of the three boot shells the Baruntse is the only traditionally laced outer boot. Simple and effective system to get a good fit in that boot. Very durable and reliable. From my limited experience if you have problems with fitting boots the Baruntse is the boot most likely to fit. Still it can take 3 men and a boy to lace them tight enough. The Spantik has a lace system you either love or hate. I can't get my ankle tight enough without some serious effort. Too much effort in really cold conditions where the system should make things easier. Sper thin laces are rough on your hands. Inner and outer eyelets are fragile. I personally went through three pair of Spamtiks before having a "solid" pair now. Because of the lacing issue I end up with heel lift in the Spantik if I am not extremely careful adjusting the laces. Get tired and cold and not adjust the boots perfectly and I'll get heel lift going up and toe bump going down in the Spantik. So I am on the hate side of that discussion. Boots do climb well though....so I have used them on things that are cold and challenging for me.

The 6000 has an interesting lace system. My old Koflach inners were a slip on with only a Velcro strap across the top locking the tongue in place. On the 6000 you lace the outer shell to one eyelet above the angle and it locks with a mechanical lace lock...sweet system btw and very easy to use even cold or tired from what I can see so far. (see the pictures for details on the lock) By far the easiest of the three outer boots to lace tightly. It really is trick and so far if my Guides are an example the lock system is durable/reliable as well. Above the lace system is a single Velcro "power band" strap that closes the rest of the outer shell. It also controls just how stiff the boot will be and how much heel hold down you'll have by how tight you wrap that strap. Easy to go over board on either lace system and really crank the 6000 down, till it is way too tight. For me that says I'll be able to get it tight enough in the mountains when required. And it is really easy to do. A lot less toe bump or heel lift as the end result. I'm stoked on that! Velcro does wear out...but not quickly and it will be easily replaceable on this strap. But there is a lot of Velcro (1" x 4") and I suspect the boots will be toast before you have to replace the 1" x 4" hook and 1" x 4" loop that mates up on the "power strap".

Toe bump? Generally toe bump is either a too small of boot or not a tight enough boot. When I first tried the 6000 on I had just gotten off a 5 mile ridge traverse with another couple of miles of walking so I had some pretty swollen feet. I thought the sizing was at least a full size too small. Turns out I wear a 45 from Sportiva and a tight 45 in the new Scarpa Guide and a 46 in the 6000.

As I reviewed this post I was looking at the pictures and noted that the insole of the inner boot that I have flipped over in the picture above is marked "44". Sneaky bastards......... When I first pulled the 6000 out of the box it took me 10 seconds flat to figure out I didn't like the Scarpa inner boot so I didn't look at it very closely or try to get a decent fit in it. I just stuck my "go to" Baruntse inners in the shells..thinking I was set. The 6000's actual inner boot and the shells are both marked 45. But common in the dbl boot arena to not offer true half sizes and cheat on the sizing in general. My thought? Bastards! Trust no one, try the boot (any boot) on in person, verify your exact size with the liners and sox you intend to use.

Frankenstein? Both the Spantik (more so) and the Baruntse make me feel like I am walking on stilts. I gain almost a full inch in height. I am willing to put up with that because I know that the sole insulation is much of what keeps your feet warm in really cold conditions with crampons. It doesn't help my technical climbing though. You'll feel the difference on the 6000 and if you look at the photos you'll see the difference...almost a 1/2" less in sole thickness between the Spantik and the 6000 in some areas on the sole. I measured anywhere from .25" to .45" difference in total sole thickness between the two.



One of the interesting details I found on the 600 is the sole. No only are the lugs smaller and less of them than the single boot, Phantom Guide, but they have a totally different sole pattern. La Sportiva has taken good advantage of this idea as well. Where I really noticed it was in the La Sportiva Trango Series. They use sticky rubber and a technical sole pattern that can really enhance rock climbing.

The 6000 is on the left again. Check out the toe rubber on the 6000 compared to the full lug pattern on the Guide. I would have thought it would be reversed. But I am not complaining! A dbl boot that will out climb a single boot? And only 3 oz heavier? Hard to believe actually. Even ditching the original liner I am happy enough with the obvious advantages and fit of the 6000 shell that I will be using them next winter and spring. The real question is how will they hold up over a full years use? Check back for an answer on that one.

Crampons?

A good fit on the 6000 with the BD Sabertooth 'pons, BD asymetrical connecting bars and Petzl front bails.

Bill Belcourt @ Black Diamond is a smart guy, who climbs hard. He also oversees the climbing hardware dept. @ BD. So while were were both "wowed" by the weight of the 6000 at last winter's OR show he was wondering then about how the super low profile Scarpa soles on the new Phantom line would work with the BD crampon bindings. Rightfully so imo. The Phantom guide seemed to pose little problem with my hybred BD Sabertooths useing Petzl front bails and a the BD asymetrical connecting bar. But the 6000 is a jump on even the Guide's sole profile....as in a thinner and smaller profile toe. My BD Sabertooths do still work OK but my Patzl Darts and Dart Twins don't fit well at all...surprizing as I had understood Ueli Steck (Petzl sponsored) had some involvement in the boot design. So plan on having some time/effort/possible new parts for your crampons if you decide to go to the newest Scarpa boots.

Close up photo of a terrible fit, stock Petzl Dartwin 'pons on the front of the 6000.

Sabertooth with the optional aluminum Neve' heel and the asymetrical bars.

And as of tomorrow my goal will be to own only two pair of dbl boots. I''ll let you guess which two.

Scarpa's spiel:

And be sure to note the one year warranty

"Give your foot a warm and sturdy platform to help you crush your next winter ascent when you lace and zip it up inside the Scarpa Phantom 6000 Mountaineering Boot. This fortress of warmth features a built-in zip-up gaitor for sealing out the skin-searing cold and a waterproof liner so your feet stay dry even on slushy snowfields in late May.

•The tough S-tech upper’s rubber rand holds up to the abuse any frozen mountain dishes out
•Toe and heel plastic rands secure your crampons as you begin a climb into the heavens
•Waterproof liner is beefed up with a layer of EVA foam and heat-reflective aluminum to keep the warm air inside
•Insole and midsole cushion your steps while staying sensitive enough to feel each foothold before you take the next
•Vibram Mulaz outsole grips the rocks and snow as you approach the icefall
•Ergofit System stretches in the ankle for a dynamic fit for aggressive ice climbers and mountaineers
•Removable Mountain Lite liner lets you dry the sweaty liners in your sleeping bag on longer expeditions to keep them fresh and unfrozen

Material:
Shell: S-Tech (Cordura w/ 10% elastane)
Lining:Waterproof-OD, Lorica, 5mm EVA, heat-reflective aluminum
Removable Liner:Yes Sole:
Insole: Pro-Fiber XT;
Midsole: PU, microporous EVA;
Outsole: Vibram Mulaz
Crampon Compatible:Yes, very low profile toe welt
Lacing:Lace-pull on lower boot, single strap velcro closure on upper boot
Zip-up gaitor
Weight:[Pair, size 42] 4lb 6oz (2000g)
Recommended Use:Ice climbing, alpine climbing, mountaineering
Manufacturer Warranty:1 Year

The Slovak, Denali 2010

Well done guys!
And a great video.

BD grassroots athlete Jesse Huey reports on his ascent of Denali's Slovak Direct route from Black Diamond Equipment on Vimeo.

http://vimeo.com/13835595

Or copy and paste the link above.