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15 years ago Dave Goode, in Provo Utah, was making carbon fiber skis that still have yet to be surpassed for weight.
Ten years ago Dynafit did a run of very light weight touring ski that covered 3 different widths from 78mm to 98mm underfoot. For what they were, all of them still skis exceptionally well for their width and weight as a touring skis. And IMO all are still exceptional skis by any standard.
Here are some numbers for comparison:
The Nanga Parbat 80mm
171 x 80mm Nanga Parbat 1052g
The Cho Oyu 88mm
174 x 89mm Cho Oyu 1180g
and the Denali 98mm
176 x 98 Denali
1299/1259 = 1279g average
1294/1305 = 1300g average
Ten years on now, the general touring skis have gotten wider and overall lighter for the most part. But few have match let alone surpassed that run on the earlier Dynafit skis for the weight compared to the width under foot.
Movement's skis for 2022 and 2023? Construction?
- ULTRALIGHT CARBON
- wood core, ultralight paulownia
- DOUBLE PLATE TITANAL
- BASE SPEED
- RACE EDGE
90mm
1030g (162) This is a ski I don't own. It was a tossup between the 85 and the 90 underfoot. The "on sale" price point made that decision for me.
95mm
1108g (161cm) Short and stubby, intentionally.
98mm (2023/24) version
1273g/1275g per ski (178cm)
1274g average for my pair, which is outstanding.
This is the ski I bought to replace my aging 176cm, Dynafit Denali. The Denali was listed as 131-98-116, 21.5m and weighted in at a1290g. The 98 is listed as 126-98-124. 20.5m radius and came in at is 1270g. So the two skis are very close. A little less side cut, and hopefully, a little less hooky on the Movement in bad snow. We'll have to see if they ski good enough to justify carrying the extra 1 pound in ski weight over some of my lighter 161cm ski for Spring and Summer corn. I once thought so and skinned on a pair of Huascaran to Camp Muir. Huascarans were a full 2.5# heavier than either of the two LWT skis. For a run ski down from Muir to the bridge very fun, but a really dumb idea to carry an extra 2.5# on your feet..anywhere...if you can help it! I expect the 98i to be just as much fun as the 2023 106mm version, just in a bit less ski in overall weight. I'd guess it to be every but the ski the original Denali was and a good bit more playful and forgiving. Which should equate to an outstanding b/c touring ski. More to come on that choice and why.
106mm (177cm) 2022 version 1340/1335g
2023/24 version 1296/1283g
When I went looking for a new ski in Jan. of 2023 it wasn't like I needed a new pair of skis. The ski inventory in my shop is embarrassing in its selection. But some of them are getting a little long in tooth if not by technology, then by use.
At the start of the pandemic, I had sent a deposit for what I had hoped would be a fun 4 or 5 days of steep skiing. It took a couple of years a change of ownership before that deposit was finally honored. Turned out it was the biggest ski season in decades and the snowpack to match. I've never left home with the avi danger so high in the back country.
But that trip or at least the promise of that trip sent me looking for a new ski with at least the weight and surface area the older Dynafit Denali.
The Denali has been my go-to ski for a while now. It had replaced my much-loved Cho Oyu that I have spent even more time on. The Denali was a bit more forgiving, and I liked the added 10mm under foot, both of which bettered the Cho.
I have skis going from 65mm under foot, all the way to 138mm under foot. Usually more than one and between them a number of great skis that overlap on width. The Denali is 98 under foot. It was replaced by the Dhaulagiri @ 95mm underfoot. And eventually replaced again and again with a few tweaks by the Dynafit to arrive at the Blacklight 95, which is the current, touring oriented, 95mm from Dynafit.
I bought and skied on two different sized 95 Blacklights. Although the BL 95 is close in weight, IMO it is no Denali when it comes to how they ski. A decent ski sure. But nothing to write home about either.
So the search continued throughout the winter.
Skimo Co. in SLC generally has a great selection of back country skis and, more importantly to me, reliable data.
Movement Alp Tracks 106 - 2021/22 (skimo.co)
What they offer IMO are very reliable descriptions of how the skis actually perform. I would prefer more in hand reviews that a J. Peterman catalog of fantasy writing. The best I could hope for on reliable data was what the end users were commenting on in Skimo's Q&A section. Even then I found some of the comments totally at odds to my own from actual use.
Which in turn got me to write about my experience with a number of Movement skis here.
The 106 was my first Movement ski. So the conversation really starts here.
There was some back and for the between SKIMO comments and perspective buyer's comments on the two versions of the 106. Which made me favor the "more traditional style 106 from 2022. Flat tail, a little stiffer maybe and a less "fun" ski by what I would consider "modern" standards. I think the "less fun" comment is spot on when compared to a dbl rockered, twin tip style, modern freestyle ski. The Praxis GPO is a classic modern, and really fun ski. DPS 112RP is different yet but another. Both are also a good bit more under foot @ 112/116mm and weight well over 9# for a pair. The Movement 106 comes in 3# lighter for a pair.
So not the best comparison. The 2022 version is not the best for shape as a comparison either.
Don't get me wrong I really like the 2022, Movement 106 version. But it has its place. And it is not the 2023 version. I skied the 2022 version in all sorts of snow. And it would be a great all around ski for me as is in soft snow conditions.
But playful it is not. You have to work the ski.
The 2023 version with pronounced twin tips and a slightly softer flex is flat out a better soft snow ski. And at least in the two pair I ski, the 2023 version is a bit lighter.
Everyone very likely has one run that stands out from the 2022/2023 ski season. I have a couple of them. Both on the 106. And earlier winter run made me think the 2022 version was one of the best skis I have ever skied on for size and weight. Same run, in similar conditions, 2 months later convinced me the 2023 ski was without a doubt the best lwt "mid fat" ski I have been on. I am stuck on that conviction even now. The 2023 version is simply an easier and more forgiving ski in soft snow than the 2022 version.
That said, I'd still carry the 2022 version to ski off Rainier, early season.
Which such a quiver of sizes to choose from it is fun to pick and choose what width and length of ski you might want for your own adventures and the time of year.
There is no doubt that the Movement ski line up really are good skis. Isay that even when not focused on ski weight. Every Movement ski I own skis exceptionally well. But the reason I bought them is their weight. It is the weights specs that first grabbed my attention with Movement. The weight alone has continued to hold my attention on this width of ski.
I wrote this comment on the 106 first, but I'll try to give some perspective on the other with ski widths as well before I am done.
5 comments:
Love it! Looking forward to the race pro review.
what boots and bindings do you use on these?
Anon? Boots? I use one of the various Dynafit TLT boots. Either a green or a black TLT6 for any ski I own up to a DPS 120mm. Skiing the Dynafit Blacklight some this year as well. On the race skis I use an older pair of Dynafit PDGs. Bindings are a Dynafit low tech race toe and either a low tech race heel or a Plum 170 race heel, both bindings on tracks.
Hey Dane, been following your blog for about a decade now (one of the few pieces of media out there going this deep into the technical details of mountain equipment and systems) and got into ski touring last season myself. My first setup was Dynafit’s Blacklight 88 (172cm)(paired with Speedfit Pro boot and Superlight 175 bindings), which as I understand it is the successor to the Cho Oyu spoken highly of by yourself and Wild Snow. I’ve enjoyed touring with it highly, more so on the uphill than downhill due to finding it harsh in suspension and grabby in rough snow. I’m not a very good skier and credit this mostly to my poor technique, but have the sense that it is a somewhat unforgiving ski. This month I had the good fortune to pickup a pair of used Dynafit Nanga Parbat skis which I’ll be on soon. I notice with this older generation of light touring ski that the Nanga has significantly more camber, is softer when hand flexing, and reaches the widest point of its shovel further back from the tip. Since you’ve skied both the Denali and Blacklight 95 (which are a more apples to apples comparison) could you go into more depth with your experience between the two? By chatter on the web the Blacklight seems to be a notable improvement on those old skis, and logic has it that a decade of new technology would contribute to that, but perhaps not?
Hi BB,
Sorry I am so late to answer this. I still ski on a pair of the red Nanga Parbat. As well as the Denali, Cho and the Dhaulagiri. I have also spent a good bit of time on the Black light 98s. But not the 88s. As you mention the 88 should be comparable to the Cho. I like the Cho for the weight. I also thought it was too hooky. The Denali less so. The Nanga even less so again. I don't think the 98 is a better ski than the Denali. The Dhaulagiri is but it is heavier than either. I still have a pile of new skis that are now 10 years old. As are the majority of my boots. I also have the Black light boot. My take is not every year's newest production is a "better ski or boot". I've skied of this winter on current production skis. Some were so disappointing (and well as being super expensive) that I skied a week on them and then got rid of them. Skis I thought were going to easily replace others in my quiver. They were not even close. The ski (outdoor) industry thrives on selling us the "current production". That doesn't always mean better no matter what the magazines and online reviewers say.
The Nanga, Cho and Denali are still within grams of being the lightest skis for their width. I own and ski on a few that are dang close but none lighter. I have a scale to verify that and use it at least weekly even now.
"By chatter on the web the Blacklight seems to be a notable improvement on those old skis, and logic has it that a decade of new technology would contribute to that, but perhaps not?"
My thought is not. I think the technology of the older skis (Cho/Denali era) are a better ski that the current generation of Blacklight. I was told just the opposite buy guys selling them. They were wrong IMO. I like the Bl 98 but it is not Denali and nothing even close to the Dhaulagiri. The Dhaulagiri will out ski either the Denali or the 98. But it is heavier and more durable. Only reason the BL is the same weight at the Denali? The tip shape was chopped just to drop weight. My 161cm Movement 85mm weigh 2# 8.6oz. My 171cm, Nanga Parbat is 80mm and 2# 11oz, per ski with the same race bindings on both. The Nanga skis a whole lot better with only a 5oz difference per pair and 10cm longer. Hard to find a really bad back country ski today, but it can be done. The Nanga, Cho, Denali and Dhaulagiri are not skis that have any technological disadvantage, even 10 years on, in their respective categories.
Again, I haven't skied the 88 but by the sounds of it, same story at the Denali/98 comparison. The older ski is easier to ski, simple as that. I like the BL98 a lot. Enough so I ski them in two sizes, 172 and 178. I like the old Denali a whole lot more even today. I generally ski it in the 176. I keep expecting to break my first pair with multiple mounts but haven't yet.
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