The Curious Case of the Commercial Umbilical Strengths?

Better said, "Who knows what they will actually hold?"

I guess I am not surprised when I look at the inability of Petzl to have a consistent umbilical attachment point incorporated into all their technical tools.  While in comparison, BD builds and then load tests theirs to 1500# or better.  Of course neither their umbilical or anyone leashes will take 1500#.   Grivel?  They want you to tie into a plastic part on some of their tools!  The rest of the tool business?  It is no better or worse.

Just a small case study of the extremes in the ice climbing equipment world.

Why we as a climbing community put up with this kind of nonsense is truly stupefying however.

From Left to right:
BD Sprinner leash, old style Grivel Spring leash and a Metolius FS Mini Wiregate

BD flat steel mini biner is good for 1500# or more but  2Kn (450#)  rated by the UIAA tag on 13mm (1/2"?) tube webbing. (1/2" nylon tube was rated @ 1800# in the old Chouinard catalog)

Th nylon webbing is likely to always be the weak link on any umbilical.

2kn is the UIAA requirement for leashes.  What the hell are they thinking when they write that kind of requirement when it gets applied to umbilicals? 

Black Diamond sez:

"Just tested this to 800lbs (single leg of the Spinner leash). No damage to the 4mm cord or our steel clip (production quality with more tumbling to the part); the bungee webbing breaks first. Then pull tested our steel biner clipped to 5mm cord, this went to 1600lbs before the cord broke."

More?  This after my earlier comments about umbilicals "being fashionable" and not being designed specifically for the use.

"The steel clip on the spinner leash is anything but fashionable. If I made it out of aluminum it would be a lot lighter and weaker (hence more fashionable), and if I made the gate opening smaller and the gate shorter, it would be a lot stiffer for a given diameter of wire. The strength of that clip is somewhere north of 3000lbs (I don't know how strong it really is because everything I have tested it with broke first) ."

Of course no accounting for the fact that the BD Spinner leashes have the nasty and well know habit of popping off at any given moment.

Grivel flat aluminum biner is stamped "3Kn" (675#) on 16mm (9/16"?) tube webbing (9/16" tube was rated @ 2800# in the old Chouinard catalog)

I've no clue what the Grivel is actually good to strength wise.  But the same biner was sold as a key chain holder.  I have blown the sheath on 4mm cord connecting a single side strand of the Grivel.  Biner and webbing seem unharmed.   So better than the 3Kn that is stamped in the Grivel biner I suspect.  Grivel went to a mini locking boner early on.  They might be on to something since Grivel was the first company to offer a commercial umbilical.

Metolius FS Mini Wiregate biner is engraved is 22Kn (4950#) and a good bit heavier and bigger physically in every way as well.

By the "feel" of it the original Grivel wire gate biner (2.5mm wire) has at least twice the gate opening resistance as the BD (2.4mm wire) and easily 3 times the opening resistance of the Metolius mini biner (2.2mm wire).

Some of this goes right along with plastic racking biners (that break or open consistently enough to drop racks) and umbilicals that are only required to take a 450# load by the UIAA requirement.   That as we all know, on occasion, are required to catch full size falling bodies.   What the hell is the UIAA thinking?   How about a design and strength requirements that incorporates the actual use?

Umbilicals have been in use  at least 30 years now in the ice climbing community.  This isn't a new idea or use.  Umbilicals were pulling the spikes through water rotted laminated bamboo on Chouinard Zeros back then.  May be it is about time the rest of the world catches up with what we actually do require.

DEEP THOUGHTS WITH COLIN HALEY

By: Steve House

http://www.sportiva.com/live/page.php?id=48&at=24

 
More here:
 
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010/11/exocet-solo.html

Solo on the Cassin?

I asked my friend Cosmin Andron to share some of his experience on the Cassin last spring.
Solos are always a journey.  This one no less so.

"It’s been snowing for days and I am going bonkers at the Ski Hill (NE Fork) camp (cca 2400 m alt.). Tent bound since the 13th of June I start doubting I’d be able to get on the “Cassin” on this trip and I’m getting sure my acclimatization is wearing out by the hour now… I’ve listened my music, I’ve read my books, I’ve weighted my options all the while the snow was incessantly falling…


Then it’s 20th morning and the sun is shining and the skies are clear. Mark, back at KIA, mentioned something about a break in the weather for the weekend and I guess this must be it. I am weighting my options: go light – no tent, no sleeping bag just the stove, my Sirius down jacket and compressor pants and some bars and gels. Or plan for a three days ascent and go heavy: tent, sleeping bag, food, haul line in case I need to pull my bag, some cams and screws in case I need an anchor… It’s all about weight and weighting my options.

I’ve never done the route and weather proved to change swiftly. I may have lost my acclimatisation while doing book-worm work in my tent for the last seven days. Caution takes over the judgment steering and I opt for the heavy option; and heavy it is. "

More of the story here:

http://www.cosmin-andron.com/2010/07/cassin-ridge-solo/



Cosmin picks up the story here with the gear list he used and what he might suggest or use himself now listed in the 2nd column..



Cosmin sez:

Before I left for the Cassin Ridge I was worried that I spent too much time (7 days) at low elevation (NE Fork) and that the weather window won’t last longer than that day. I knew the route was long and all I had was a printed topo. I had to make a choice if to go light or go prepared to stick it out. From the info I had (through the grapevine) was that a Russian team did the route while I was in 14000 ft Camp and they spent 4 days on it. I prepared for 3, but I thought luxurious 3 so I can extend to 5 or 6 if needed.


Not knowing what was the condition of the route I took enough gear to protect some pitches if necessary.

I am usually cold so I erred on the side of warmth rather than lightweight.

With such a gear load and bivy equipment my priority was not to move very fast but safe, which meant that I spent a whole day listening music on Cassin ledge, waiting for the night and firm snow conditions. Second day I wasted half of it wandering lost within the first rock band.

In 2010 I started climbing at 4am on 21 June. By 8am same day I was finishing setting up my tent on Cassin ledge and took some photos. I spent the whole day (very warm day) on the ledge listening to music. On 22 June at 12:45am I set off. I am at the hanging glacier early morning. I wasted 2 to 3 hours fixing my broken old Jetboil. I spent 1 hour eating and hiding from the sun. Lunchtime I entered the first rock bad, had a rest near M shape d rocks and spent the next 4 or so hours climbing up and down looking for the route. I joined a pair of Canadians that came up and found the bivy spot with them early that evening. On 23 June I left the bivy spot around 2:30pm (allowing the Canadian team three hours advance). By 9pm on 23 Jun I reached the bivy spot above the 3rd rock band (5350m) and the Canadian pair who were just cooking dinner. They left early morning on 24 June, for the summit. I packed up at 4pm and left for the summit at about 4:30pm. I was on the summit at exactly 11pm.

All in all the bag was quite heavy for what I am accustomed to and I haven’t used quite everything. The pro I used was:

- an ice –screw belay 50 up from the ‘shrund on the Japanese couloir so I can haul my backpack over it. (I fell into the ‘shrund while trying to climb it with my backpack on when the snow collapsed)

- the rope to haul the backpack in the Japanese couloir, and twice while climbing off-route in the first rock band

- the rope to abseil four/five times within the rock bad (used natural anchors)

- camalot # .5 and 60cm dynema sling


I had dual points on my Cyborgs and combined with the heavy backpack and hard ice or crumbly ice I had to kick twice/thrice to stick it. When I climbed without the backpack on, it went smooth. Besides climbing lighter, next time I’d stick to monopoints….

Having a third tool (first time ever) was a good choice. On the last abseil within the first rock band I clipped my Cobras on my ice-clippers and because of the tangle I unclipped the umbilical. I flicked the rope over my right hip, the Cobra snagged and unclipped and tumbled down the pitch and stopped on a shelf. Just then the Canadian pair was coming up so they brought it up, but it was comforting knowing I had another tool in my backpack.

Below I made two lists. In the first one is what I had in June 2010. In the second list is what I would carry now if I were to do it again. I believe that with a partner, with an tweak in gear, in similar conditions and
climbing competently we could do it with two bivis and leading on a single 8.1 Iceline (not recommended by the manufacturer). Trying it alone again, with the benefit of current knowledge of the route and with a lighter pack I believe I could do it without a bivy. In neither scenario I am planning on super fast ascents.


gear in June 2010                       if I were to do it again                      

Equipment                                         Equipment                                              

BD Speed 40L (with lid)                 BD Speed 30L (no lid)                       

BD Cobra (pair)                              BD Cobra (pair)                                

Grivel leash                                     BD Spinner leash                                  

Grivel Matrix Light hammer            Grivel Quantum Light hammer -

BD Cyborg crampons                        BD Cyborg crampons                        

Grivel helmet                                      BD Half dome helmet

BD Camalots ( .5, .75,1, 2, )              BD Camalots (.5) BD

BD Express screws (4)                        BD Express screws (1)

Titanium pegs (4)                                   Titanium pegs (2)

BD nuts (5) - -

BD Neutrino (16)                                BD Neutrino (6)

BD Dyneema 60cm (8)                       BD Dyneema 60cm (3)

BD Dyneema 12cm (2)                       BD Dyneema 12cm

CT Oval locking biners (3)                   CT Oval locking biners (1)

BD Oval wiregate biner                        BD Oval wiregate biner

Kong Duck (2)                                     Kong Duck (1)

BD ATC guide                                     BD ATC guide

Arc’teryx M280 Harness                          Arc’teryx M280 Harness

Beal Iceline 8.1mm (1X50m)                   Beal IceTwin 7.7mm (1X50m)

Mammut 5mm X 5m-                             Mammut 5mm (1X2m )

Bivy gear                                                  Bivy gear

BD Firstlight tent                                    
Valandre Odin Sleeping bag                 

Foam matteress                                                             

Jetboil and small canister )                      Jetboil and small canister



Food Food

Adventure Food – B-fast (3)                

Adventure Food – Meal (3)                 

Adventure Food – Dessert (4)             

Powerbars (6)                                           Energy bars (5)

Sweets (100g)                                          Sweets (50g)

Isostar powder (100g)                               Energy drink powder (50g)



Clothing                                                   Clothing

Arc’teryx Rho LT top                               Arc’teryx Rho AR top

HH bottom                                               Arc’teryx Phase AR bottom

Arc’teryx Gamma Salopette                       Arc’teryx Gamma Salopette                    

Arc’teryx Accelero Pullover

Arc’teryx Gamma MX Hoody                     Arc’teryx Gamma MX Hoody

Arc’teryx Dually Belay Parka                        Arc’teryx Atom LT Hoody

Valandre Syrius Down Jacket                        Valandre Syrius Down Jacket

MH Compressor pant                                  Arc’teryx Alpha SL pant


 
Smartwool Hiking Liner x 2                            Smartwool Hiking Liner

Smartwool Mt Extra HW x 2                          Smartwool Mt Extra

BD Guide (old) gloves x 2                              BD Punisher gloves

BD Absolute (old) mitt                                  BD Absolute mitts

Valandre down mitt                                  

Valandre down botties                             

Arc’teryx embroid cap                                  Arc’teryx embroid cap

No-name fleece balaclava                               Arc’teryx Rho LT Balaclava

La Sportiva Spantik                                        La Sportiva Spantik

BD gaiters                                                      BD gaiters



Accessories                                                   Accessories

Salice googles                                                     googles

Iridium satphone                                               Spot device

Cassio Pro-Trek watch                                   Cassio Pro-Trek watch

Keymaze GPS watch

iPod Shuffle music player                               iPod Shuffle music player

BD Mt walking poles (pair)                         

MSR snowshoes                                              W Rib access to route

Nalgene bottle                                                   Nalgene bottle

Camera                                                             Camera

Just how strong is "your" technical ice tool?

With all the comments and multiple blogs on  umbilicals I have made it is worth asking (as some did) just how strong is the next link in the chain?   How strong is your actual attachment point on the tool?

May better asked,  "how strong is your tool where you clip in?"   I use my tools all the time as an anchor (may be the only anchor) and expect them to do the job if required.  (hold a top rope fall and me)

I like to climb on Petzl tools.  But  with the exception of the newest Quark just out this season it has been a while since Petzl has made a high priority of a full strength attachment point in their design work..  I have no clue what a new Quark will hold on the spike.  But I will ask and post the results here next week.

Doesn't take much imagination to figure out what a Nomic or Ergo was designed by Petzl to hold for weight.  The answer is?  Not much.

I like how "bomb proof"  the BD tools are (just not always the picks) and use them as well.   There are good reasons climbers have a preference in ice tools.  I respect reliability.  And I also value performance.  

This from Black Diamond when I asked on the subject:

"One thing I will clarify; there is no requirement for spike ( load ) strength even though it is now used as an attachment point for leashes on some tools.  BD proof tests every tool we sell (technical and mountaineering) to 1000lbs (pulled end to end). We have an internal requirement for the ultimate end to end strength to exceed 2000lbs (we usually exceed this by a large margin).

We were the only one in the business to do this and test for it to my knowledge. I have tested many other manufacturers' tools and most do not meet it, and some tools (with plastic type spike/pommels) only went to a couple hundred pounds at room temps before they broke.

The only exception to the 2000lb internal requirement is the Fusion. Fusion spike will go to around 1500lbs with the maximum amount of spacers allowed(3) before the bolt breaks (the threads do not fail). We worked a bunch to maximize the strength of that area."

Bill Belcourt, Black Diamond


More on the UIAA and CE tests.
Tools sold in Europe must pass CE (Conformité Européenne) standards that the product has met EU consumer safety requirements. The CE standards for climbing gear were adopted from the UIAA (Union Internationale des Associations D’Alpinisme, based in Berne Switzerland) 15 years ago. For climbing UIAA certification meets a more stringent standard than CE certification. Some manufacturers require both UIAA and CE certification on their climbing gear.

Ice tool definitions from the UIAA website:

Type B = Basic,  lower strength, glacier travel use and/or ski mountaineering.

Type T = Technical type, high strength, water fall ice climbing,  M (mixed) climbing.

Ratings                                                        B                                            T

3-point bend test on the shaft            2.5 kN*                      3.5 kN

Strength of head/shaft (ourward)       0.6 kN                         0.9 kN

Strength of head/shaft (across)         2.5 kN                           4.0 kN

Torque test of pick                             127 N                                 182 N

Fatigue torque test of pick              No test                            80 N

Attachment point of shaft to spike    2 kN                              2 kN

Can you date this axe?

Here is an interesting axe.  Grivel for sure.  Pre 1980 but how pre 1980?  50cm and looks unaltered except for some sharpening.    I asked Grivel for a production date. 

"This axe was in producton between 1978 and 1985 (more or less).  The shaft is in rexilon.
Ciao,
Alexis
Grivel"

This week I was told Grivel was offering a similar axe as early as 1970.  Virtually the same time as Chouinard had his Piolet available, which was late fall of 1969 by Doug Robinson's recollections.  I'll look into that further.

"Certainly by the next catalog the date of introduction of the Piolet is listed as 1969. And by October of that year Yvon delivered to me on the edge of the Palisade Glacier the hickory-handled 70 cm one (and that hand-forged Alpine Hammer) that we put to good use on the V-Notch the next day."
Doug Robinson,  Jan 2 '09

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=382806&tn=0&mr=0

Up date #1

The Grivel axe is a 45cm. not a 50cm.  Really short for those days.   Teeth and 2nd notch along the pick blade are all original.   Import date into the USA is unknown at the moment but first varified sighting of something similar in the USA was Sept. 1970.

"I first saw the axe in September, 1970, at Dakins Vermont Shop where Vermont products like cheese and maple syrup were sold. Helmut Lenes had a corner of the shop where he sold european climbing gear.  I didn't buy that axe because it was too expensive and weird looking. Too short and too curved." JB

More to come asap.

But I suspect, this and another story I am working will put a couple of long standing ice climbing myths to death.

Light is Always Right..... Part duex

GCC, Mount Kitchener, photo by Ken Weeks


"And so it goes on, the ceaseless evaluation of weight against eventuality; the number of krabs and pegs estimated in accordance with the difficulty of the climb and then whittled down to a manageable load."

Joe Tasker, MOUNTAIN LIFE, 1975

In alpine climbing nothing really changes.  With the exception of global warming the mountains don't change a lot in a man's life time.  And even then alpine climbing has always been about "conditions".  As the mountains have warmed we have just changed the seasons we climb in.    Good conditions generally makes any alpine climb a romp.  Bad conditions can make them into a slug fest, death march.

We as climbers haven't changed physically.  Even the best professionals of today are going to be hard pressed to ride a bicycle half way across the country and then climb any of the European Classic North faces with modern gear instead of the gear they relied on in the '30s.  That kind of fitness and mental sobriety few still own today.  Think not? OK, put everything you need including your climbing food, in a ruck, hop on your one speed bike and pedal it partway across, Italy, France or Germany (take your pick) all while wearing the same clothing you are going to be climbing in. Then WALK into the route and spend a couple of days out.  When you finally get down, you grab you bike and peddle home.  Get the idea?  Tough!

Kinda like this amazing modern trip of Maxine Turgeon's...just different :)

http://www.sportiva.com/live/page.php?id=26&at=24

Paul Diffley's wonderful film, PINNACLE if nothing else showed the fitness required of Smith and Marshal  for just one week in the Ben in 1960.  MacLeod and Turner were hard pressed to keep up that pace.

So what has changed? From a myopic perspective two things, gear and attitude.   Attitude came first.  New gear enabled the attitude to infiltrate the masses.

Once the "race" began in alpine climbing, gear became less important than the mental attitude of the climber.
Pared down to crampon's and a a pair of  curved ice tools,  the LIGHT IS RIGHT ethic literally sped to the forefront.

Messner's solo  on le Droites 1969 (8hr30min) and again with Habeler on the Eiger  in 1974 as a "traditional" team (10hr) , come to mind.

Messner's climb of le Droites in 8.5hr on a route that is longer and harder than le Ginat should make one step back and rethink what light and hard climbing is.   The Eiger's current team record was 6:50,  then 6:10 set in 2008.  Le Droites?  2:08 on the Ginat, which doesn't even go to the summit as Messner did via a new route.


Below, Ueli Steck on le Ginat.

http://www.alpineexposures.com/blogs/chamonix-conditions/1457202-ueli-steck-speed-solo-of-the-ginat-on-the-droites

Photo courtesy of Colin Haley, here on the lower ice field, during a quick ascent of  le Ginat, le Droites

Colin's blog links beloiw from two of his le Droites climbs.
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2009/04/les-doites-le-ginat-solo.html

http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010/04/back-in-chamonix.html


"Some of the best climbers in the world stopped their ascents and watched through binoculars, aghast, as Messner hacked his way up Les Droites, then regarded as the most difficult ice wall on earth. The fastest ascent until then had taken three days; three previous expeditions had met with disaster and death. "

By the late 1980s, Wild Things' packs and harnesses had attained cult status among the world's elite climbers. "When they started the company in the late '70s, Wild Things was way ahead of everybody else in pack designs, sewn slings and one-piece suits," explains American Alpinist Mark Richey. "These are things we all take for granted nowadays, but John and Titoune developed the designs for climbers and brought the ideas to market. I suspect that from 1982 through 1987, nearly every big climb was done with Wild Things' gear."

There were two climbs in particular that Bouchard put his (and Titoune's)  "light is right" philosophy to the ultimate test.  The South Face of Aconcaqua  in 1983 (with Titoune) and again on the East Ridge of Shivling in 1996 (with Mark Richey).  

As important as the ascents of Messner and  Bouchard were in the Alps, and later, on bigger peaks it wasn't their climbing that influenced several generations of alpinists to follow that path.  It was their writings on the idea of "light is right".  Mark Twight started climbing in 1980.  He later worked for John Bouchard at Wild Things and has his own legacy in the Alps and Alaska.  Twight was able to push the "light is right Koolaid" to another generation and may be even more so by one piece of his writing,  "EXTREME ALPINISM: Climbing Light, Fast, and High" .

I am continually amazed at the detail that Mark addressed in his book.  I reread parts of it on occasion.  Often times to just get a refresher on some idea or project I am bouncing around in my head.  I think in retrospect it is the most influential text on alpine climbing ever written.  You may love Twight or hate him or lay some where in between but no question his "EXTREME ALPINISM" has and will continue to influence alpine climbing for a long, long time to come.   A good thing, I think. 

I've heard several aspiring alpinists tell me much of Twight's info is dated.  And I would agree on some small details, like glove choices and tool leashes.  But clothing systems, sports nutrition and tools will change over time, the basic philosophy of climbing light, hasn't.  Twight had (has) the majority of that process down pat as did his mentor Bouchard.

So if you think Twight is out dated.....and for what ever you think this is worth.   I reread Twight's book quite often for new ideas and ways to solve my own problems on difficult climbs I want to do in a light weight manner.   Pimping "EXTREME ALPINISM" isn't just lip service.  I use the resource.

Will Gadd's book, ICE & MIXED CLIMBING is another good reference piece for similar projects.

"Messner was able to move so quickly because he climbed alone, alpine-style—meaning he took only a rucksack. "

There is something magical about climbing steep terrain with nothing but a rope, a rack and the (small) pack on your back .    Yvon Chouinard simply paraphrased the great German alpinist,  Willo Welzenbach in the late '60s,  and finally published in 1978,  "carry light packs. leave the ten essentials behind and remember, if you take bivouac gear equipment along, you will bivouac."

What is left out in that converstaion to put it into context?  You had then better be prepared to climb well into the night and the next morning if neccessary.   Failure can be painful and lasting.  Climbing just became a athletic endurance event and the risks higher..   It pays to know the game and the rules you will be playing by.

Even mountains like Denali become a lot more friendly and fun when you climb (well acclimatised)  from 11,000 to the summit and back in a long day.    Light is right could just as easily be described as "long days"!

Photos courtesy of Colin Haley, Bjørn-Eivind Årtun soloing the Cassin.

Several hrs later and a good many meters higher on the Cassin...it should be obvious what was in Bjørn-Eivind's pack.

http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html

"Big" climbing packs for long, difficult, alpine routes will generally weight under 25# now.  Your entire clothing kit,  another 10# past that.   The smart guys carry and climb in less.  Generally a lot less.  The now classic test piece on the North Buttress of Mt Hunter is being done with light days sacks on two and three days climbs to the summit and down.  The Eiger is done in two days or less now, mid winter.  The Ginat on le Droites or  the MacIntyre/Colton on the Grand Jorasses both commonly done now in a day, and  again in winter.

"Climbing light" is as much more about the climber's personal desire to climb fast and push their own physical limits, than it is about using light weight gear. 

The easiest way to get "light weight" is simply take LESS gear.  Which might in turn push the envelope on your own skills and experience.

But where do you start?  How do you cut weight besides the obvious, exercise and a healthy diet? Go long with less.  Double the length of your next trail run and take nothing more. Or soloing on easy to moderate terrain are both good places to start a "light is right" training program.   Get in where you are comfortable and then push yourself until you are uncomforatable.  It is easier that you might first imagine to find your own limits on what is too light and what is right for you at the moment.

The fast track on gear?  Take a look at the weights for some of your own kit.   Might be well worth taking a serious look at (and weighing) what you are using for gear and clothing.  If you don't actually know what each item weights how do you know what is the lightest?      My list is a year old and I am continually surprized by the results of even the most obvious comparisons.


Packs:
Cold Cold World 35l custom climbing sack, Spectra rip stop, 1#9oz 709g
REI Flash 18l 9.2oz / 261g
Arcteryx Khazri 35l 2#13oz / 1275g

Boots (size 45)

La Sportiva Spantik 3#.05oz / 1362g
La Sportiva Spantik with a Baruntse liner 2# 12oz / 1247g
La Sportiva Baruntse 3#2.5oz / 1503g
La Sportiva Batura 1st gen. 2#7oz / 1106g
La Sportiva Nepal Evo 2#10.5oz / 1205g
La Sportiva Trango Evo Extreme GTX 2#3oz (35oz) / 992g
Scarpa Phantom Ultra new 2010 model 2#3.5oz (35.5oz) / 1006g
Scarpa Phantom Guide new 2010 model 2#7.5oz / 1120g
Scarpa Phantom 6000 new 2010 model 2#10oz (a full dbl boot with intergal
gaiter) / 1190g

Ice tools

Original Petzl Quark hammer 1# 8oz / 682g
Petzl Nomic with mixed pick/weight 1# 6.8oz / 648g
Black Diamond Cobra or 1 lb 5 oz (mini hammer) / 600g
Black Diamond Viper or 1 lb 6 oz (hammer) / 625g
2nd gen Black Diamond Fusion (green) 1#9oz / 680g
Chouinard 55cm bamboo 770g
Chouinard alpine hammer 533g
Terrodactyl hammer 790g

Carabiners (times 20 or 30!)

Black Diamond solid D 50g
Black Diamond wire gate D 46g
Wild Country wire gate D 40g
Trango lwt wire 28g
Black Diamond Oz 28g

Cams:

Metolius Master cam 2.5" 110g
Original Wild Country Friend #2.5 130g
Original Wild Country Frend #3 142g
Wild Country Tech Friend #3 152g

Ice screws

12cm Grivel Helix 5.1oz / 144g
13cm Black Diamond (newest) Express 4.8oz / 136g
16cm Grivel Helix 5.8 oz / 166g
16cm Black Diamond Express 5.1oz / 144g
19cm Black Diamond 5.6oz / 159g

Belay jackets

Wild Things, Belay Jacket, 34oz pre 2010 / 963g
Eddie Bauer XV 38.5oz / 1091g
MEC Tango, 31.7oz / 898g
Patagonia DAS (new) 36.9oz / 1046g
Arcteryx Duelly 28oz / 794g
Narrona Lyngen 26oz / 737g
Narron Trollveggen 37.5oz / 1063g
Arcteryx Atom Hoody SV 19.0 oz / 538g
Mountain Hardwear Compressor Hoody 19.8oz / 561g
Mammut Ambler 47.2oz / 1338g


Lightly insulated jackets (belay sweaters) and shells

EB Downlight Hoodie Pullover XL 15.4 oz / 455g
EB Frontpoint XL 18.5oz / 547g
Arcteryx Atom lt Hoody large 14.4oz / 429g
Arcteryx Atom Hoody SV 19.0 oz / 562g
Mountain Hardwear Compressor Hoody 19.8oz / 586g
Arcteryx Gamma MX Hoody XL 24oz / 710g
Arcteryx Squamish pullover XL 5.6oz -166g

Pants

Paradox, mid weight longs 8oz / 227g
Arcteryx Gamma Lt large 12.4 oz / 351g
Mountain Hardwear Ridge Runner 3/4 16oz / 453g
Arcteryx Gamma MX large 19oz / 539g
NWAlpine salopettes large 21.6oz / 612g
Arcteryx Gamma MX salopettes large 30.4oz / 861g
Arcteryx GoreTex Theta Bib large 23.3oz / 660g

Helmets

Black Diamond Traser 8.5oz / 241g
Black Diamond Half Dome 12oz / 340g
Petzl Ecrin Roc 16oz / 453g
Grivel Salamander 13.7oz / 388g
Petzl Elios 12oz / 340g
Petzl Meteor III 7.9oz / 224g

Crampons per pair

Black Diamond Stinger, w/ full bot 32oz / 900g
Petzl Dartwin 1/2 bot 30.5oz / 865g
Petzl Dart no bot 28.8oz / 816g
Grivel G12 ful bot 35.6oz / 1010g
Grivel G 20 28.2 oz / 800g
Grivel G 22 w/full bot 900g
Black Diamond Stainless Sabertooth full bot 34.2oz / 969g
Black Diamond Stainless Sabertooth no bot with Petzl bail toe 28.4oz / 808g
Black Diamond Stainless Cyborg full bot 39.4oz / 1116g
Black Diamond Stainless Cyborg, mono, no bot, 28.6oz / 811g
Salewa/Chouinard hinged with straps (1980) 880g
Salewa/Chouinard clip-on rigids (1990) 920g

So how easily does it add up?  The real world weight comparisons?

I wanted to make an actual comparison of gear and see what the real world differences are on a team with very similar gear set ups and how small choices might or might not effect us.

We are suited up for a long one day of climb that is realistically rated a Grade V but generally done in a day. Although with perfect conditions I have done the climb in 5 hrs while roped to a partner and placing pro.  The flip side to that is in early January's short days, in fairly cold conditions, the climb easily lives up to the overall Grade V label.

The brothers Grimm masquerading as "Team Arcteryx LT" for this discussion.... ;-)

More here:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/real-world-weight-comparisons.html

 88.8 oz or ........... 2517g  difference.

What does 5.5# or a 22517g mean to you?

Most of that weight difference is in the actual pack's weight we used (same Cold Cold World basic designs, different material, one stripped, one not ) and the decision on the amount of extra water carried. The helmets stand out as well. Interesting with that the same manufactures helmets, that the heavier hard shell helmet broke when hit by a dinner plate and the lighter, foam core one did not with a similar hit. We were out 10 hrs total and both of us brought water back to the car.  Low temps were -30C or -22 F.
 
Some times even I wonder just how important tracking you gear weights really is.

If you wonder as well take a quick look at what I used on Polar Circus in '08 and what I used on the same climb in similar conditions in '09 as I intentionally cut weight.

pack-CCW in ballistics nylon 2#6oz
boots-Nepal Evo 2#10.5oz
screws-12 -12cm Helix 60.7oz
belay parka-Mtn Hardware Compressor Hoody 19.8oz 561g
soft shell-Arcteryx Gamma MX Hoody XL 24oz 680g
pants-Arcteryx soft shell Bib large 30.3oz   858g
helmet-Grivel Salamander 13.7oz 388g
crampons-Grivel G12 full bot 35.6oz 1009g

total weight in 2008 16.5#  7484g

pack-CCW Ozone, custom, 20" back, Spectra 1#9oz no lid
boots-Trango Evo Extreme GTX 2#3oz
screws-8 -12cm Helix 40.8oz  1156g
no belay parka
hard/soft shell-EB Frontpoint XL 18.5oz  524g
pants-Gamma Lt large 12oz 349g
helmet-Petzl Meteor III 7.9oz  224g
Dartwin 1/2 bot 30.5oz 864g

Total weight in 2009 10.6#   4592g 

How does that relate to effort in the real world? In '08 we climbed the route as fast as I ever have with a partner. In '09, with more comfort and significantly less effort than I have ever used on the climb and not actually trying to climb any faster than normal we almost cut that time in half! And in very similar conditions.

It is always a learning experience. The system I'll climb in this year given the right conditions in late spring?
But now I am getting very "condition specific" with this particular level of kit.   Not a lot of leeway here if anything unforeseen happens on the climb.  One would be pretty miserable if you had to spend a night out.

pack-REI Flash 18L 9.2oz  261g  less weight
boots-Scarpa Phantom Ultra 2#3.5oz  1006 more weight
screws-8-13cm BD Express 38.4oz  1088g less
Arcteryx Squawmish XL 5.6oz  159g less
pants-Gamma Lt large 12oz 340g equal weight
helmet-Petzl Meteor III 7.9oz  224g equal
Stainess Sabertooth stripped/Neve heel 25.4oz  720g less

Total weight 8.2#  /  3685g

Finally when you are stripped totally bare someone will invariably ask..."what goes in the pack?"

Depending on how big your pack is, and how high, far and long you plan on being out any combination of the following, food, water, stove, gas, belay jacket, insulated pants, small foam pad, file, picks, extra socks or gloves.

Classic " light is right" kit for today's big alpine ice routes. Will Sim's and Jon Griffin's climbing sacs after a quick trip up the Solvanian start to the Croz Spur.

http://www.alpineexposures.com/pages/croz-spur-with-slovenian-start-video-grandes-jorasses

Part one of the thought process is here:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/light-is-always-right.html

I wrote this gear article for UKC earlier in the week.  Less than  72hrs later it had 5000 reads.

Here is the UKC forum discussion:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=445899

Petzl picks?

I've been asked several times what the difference between the new Petzl ICE and DRY picks are compared to the older Nomic Astro and Cascade.

Both of the newest picks are now T rated  instead of the older style picks that were B rated.  Still  with the same 3.3mm tips on the DRY and Astro.  And 3.25 on the old Cascade with the ICE at 3.3mm.  None that I have examined are the 3mm claimed by Petzl.

More on picks and ratings here by Andy Kirkpatrick:

http://www.psychovertical.com/choosingatechnicalaxe:

"All technical tools these days sold in Europe must pass minimum CE norms. The shaft of a technical tool must pass the T (technical) test, guaranteeing a minimum strength of 350kg. This is carried out by applying a load to the shaft as if it was being used in a snow belay, which although far from practical - after all you'd be hard pressed for an axe belay to hold more the 35kg - does mean that when you're jamming the shaft into cracks and standing on it, it should be up to the job.


Of far more importance is the pick rating, which is either denoted by a 'B' or 'T' stamped on the pick. The 'permanent deformation' test does not necessarily relate to practical application either; picks are clamped in a vice, a lever of 330mm (often the shaft of the tool itself) is used to apply 42 (B) or 60 (T) Newtons of force for 60 seconds. At the end of the test period the lever must not show more than 70mm of permanent deflection from its start position.

Unfortunately, most picks that are noted for their 'high performance' are B-rated, which suggests a contradiction between the best performance and the greatest strength. The 'cyclic fatigue' test applies only to T-rated picks, which must endure 50,000 flexes at the end of a 250mm lever in order to pass. What this means to you the climber is that B probably stands for 'bent' if used for full on and intensive mixed climbing, while T stands for 'Tourquer', aimed at some serious twisting.

Of course. this doesn't mean that if you climb mixed routes then you need a T-rated pick, just as climbing ice doesn't mean you need a B-rated pick. What it tells you is what they were intended for, meaning you take more care with a B-rated pick when it comes to a full-on horizontal torque."
Andy Kirkpatrick

The big changes for Petzl are on the the tooth profile of the newest picks.  I find that they hook better and are also more difficult to clean on ice because of the first tooth change and more defined teeth.  The original Nomic Cascade and Astro picks will work fine with no changes in all three of Petzl's newest tools, Quark, Nomic or Ergo.   Still great picks.  Little change in actual strength past the new CE rating.  They were relisble and durable before and are even more so now.  I've seen bent Petz picks from the past generation.  All bent  indoors mind you.    But I have yet to see a broken one.

When we are discussiong Nomic picks, old picks fit new tools, new picks fit old tools.   Same with the new Quark and Ergo.   Old picks will fit the new tools,   New picks require a spacer...which is a major PAIN to replace in the field if you use Petzl's spacer.  Buy the old Astro or Cascade if you need to carry spares and think you'll break or bend a pick or need to replace them on a climb. I like the original Cascade pick design with the weights on pure ice. Fine a hardware store washer and fit it as required to use as a spacer before you take the tools climbing.


Cascade and Ice picks show in comparison.  The differing tooth designs do make a noticeable difference in actual use.  First tooth the most.  DBl click to enlarge the photo for details.

The Astro and Dry picks...are how ever very similar with the exception of the larger front tooth.

Update!

2/17/2011

Just when you think you can sleep soundly again something is bound to pop up.  This week it is broken Black Diamond Sabertooth crampons  Uneasy on that topic at best.   If i had more time I would look for more info on that issue.  Instead I'm taking mine out on some ice.  You'll here the bitching at home behind a closed door if I break a pair...trust me.

But back to the Petzl pick issue and why an update?

Turns out there is some clever mods going on at Petzl that are unspoken.  Can't figure out why a company would do a change and not make it public.  In this case I think it is a big change.  Besides the T rating and the extra long front tooth on the picks.  Petzl has also changed the pick angle on the Cascade not Ice ice between 2 and 3 degrees.  It is a big deal.  I noticed it climbing on them in Bozeman in early Dec.  Just figured it was a change in the teeth.  But it isn't.    BD went to less angle on the shaft of the new Fusion.  Petzl changes the pick angle so all the tools will have a deeper angle...Nomic (old or new) Quark and Fusion.

Some how I wasn't asked. 

Top is an exact over lay of the Cacade on top of a new ICE.

Ice pick in the middle and a Cascade on the bottom of the picture.

Close up in the over lay of the 2 or 3 degree increase of pick ange and extra hook.  Cascade on top ICE underneath it.

New ICE below that and a Cascade in the bottom of the pictuure.

You don't know Jack!

The NW face of M.t Kennedy, "A pair of Jacks"  Jack Roberts and Jack Tackle 1996

OK, Pete Takeda has been telling me he was going to write that line, "you don't know Jack!" for half a decade now about Jack.   I'm still waiting but no story?    So I finally stole the line..  (my apologies Pete but I'll make it up to you and your blaster some how;-)

 "So You don't know Jack!"

As in Jack Roberts. and "The Timeless Face" on Mt. Huntington or the epic new route on the SW face of Denali.

1978 North Face of Huntington, Jack Roberts and Simon McCartney, summit reached on July 6, 1978.

"Timeless Face VI 5.9 WI5, McCartney-Roberts). Simon McCartney and Jack Roberts climbed and hid from objective dangers and avalanches for five epic days to gain the summit.   Taking  five more to get down  and reach their base camp.   Pounds lighter for the experience.  It remains unrepeated as of 2010.  And apparently no known suitors in tow.  Alpinist 20 has a good write up on the history of Huntington,

Jack collected a few good second ascents early on in Yosemite including the Shield, Cosmos, Tis-sa-ack, The Zodiac and many FAs in the High Sierras.

But ice and alpine has been his real forte over the years. In Canada the second free ascent and third overall of Polar Circus, first winter ascents of Robson's North Face and Kitchener's Grand Central Couloir. In Alaska he has made four FAs in the Kichatna Spires, Huntington's NW Face, the SW face of Denali and on the NW face of Mt. Kennedy to the NW Ridge.  And a fist full of good routes in  the Alps as well.

So Jack has been around some and likely does know something of big walls, alpine and ice cliimbing.

From the La Sportiva web site.
"Do you have a claim to fame?"

"Jack sez: The reputation of the shape and condition of my toes and feet have made me infamous. Even Reinhold Messner wanted to see them! Also, I'm the only male Sportiva athlete to appear in a dress in any ad.

"What really scares you about climbing?"

It's very easy to mistake the sensation of feeling omnipresence for omnipotence and get severely hurt trying to understand the difference.

"Do you wish you had sexier feet?"

No one has sexier feet than I have. Didn't we have this discussion earlier?"

I've seen Jack's feet..and understand why Messner would ask.  Trust me..you don't want to ask.

  The Timeless Face- Huntington

The Roberts/McCartney line is pretty much a plumb line from the right hand summit knob to the rock buttress below the lowest hanger just right of center.

Jack's recently drawn topo of the line.  Be sure to dbl clik this one.

Some speculation on this climb in the community over the last 30 years.  It hasn't been repeated.  Few have tried.  From what I know,  most of the speculation came from one source. Simon McCarthney virtually disappeared after the new route on Denali and final rescue, which hasn't helped.  Does any one know Simon's where abouts today?   A party that summitted shortly after Roberts and McCartney wrote of being surprised at seeing their foot prints coming up the North Face.   More recently a set of stuck and chopped ropes suspected to be from Roberts and McCartney were found melted out, near the Nose, on the Harvard route, long buried under the snow and ice there.   I have no reason to doubt the ascent.

Jack is always in it.  Guiding full time, writing on occasion and still climbing hard.  March of 2011, underneath le Droites, N. Face, Chamonix.

http://www.jackrobertsclimbing.com/

What does Jack think are 10 winter climbing tips that are worth writing down?

TECH TIPS WINTER

10 WAYS TO SPEED UP YOUR ALPINE CLIMBING

When you are climbing in the mountains you want to be able to move swiftly and efficiently if you want to increase your margin of safety and increase your chances of success. Moving quickly though also usually increases your enjoyment as you feel yourself becoming more adept and sucked into what you are doing at the moment you are doing it. Moving fast doesn't necessarily mean climbing harder. It isn't about getting stronger or becoming more supple. Speed climbing is all about becoming a more cerebral climber and therefore the skills necessary can be learned by anyone. I have listed ten tips that I feel are important and that will help anyone become faster.



RHYTHM

Moving fast in the mountains isn't so much about sprinting from the tent like an Olympic champion but more like being a ultra-marathoner where you find your rhythm and learn how to stick to it. You have to learn and to teach your body the art of maintaining a cadence and pace that suits your body best and that allows you to always move forward hour after hour. This cannot be learned if you are always at your limit both technically and physically. You can however, learn your own personal cadence by practicing on long routes that are a grade or two below your limit and by building upon that. If your limit on single pitch traditional rock routes is 5.10, then try longer routes of up to 5.8. Concentrate on moving with intent. Placing protection. Setting up belay anchors etc. All these factors practiced on longer , less difficult routes will increase your speed and without realizing it you will find yourself being much faster and having more energy.



Move up a grade when you feel like it and practice the same things.

BE EFFICIENT

Do you really know just how long it takes you and your partner to lead and second a pitch? How long does it take for you to sort out the rack and begin the next lead? You and your partner must have a system worked out that takes the minimum of time to complete. Whether it be racking the gear as you follow, setting up the belay, stacking the rope at the belay incorporating speed and still staying safe is critical. As you climb and when you reach the belay NEVER let up on your pace. Set-up the anchors. Stack the rope, keep the rope tight for the second and pass off the gear rack swiftly and immediately. Use the Reverso or an auto-block plate for belaying, thereby allowing you to eat or drink whilst still belaying the second up. While the second is following the pitch he is racking the gear in a prearranged manner so that there is no time wasted when passing the rack between partners. The goal is to move upward at all times. Taking ten minutes at each belay for six pitches is 60 minutes time which can mean getting down in the light or by headlamp.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

The only way to avoid wasting time is to eliminate the complexity of your systems. A simple way to begin this is to reduce the number of ropes you climb with. Do you really need double ropes or will a single 60 or 70m rope work. This is usually long enough to link pitches together (eliminating the belay sort-out time) and one rope is easier to stack and handle than two. If you need an additional rope for rappelling consider taking a lightweight 7mm) tagline and carry this in your pack or tied onto your back.



The rack can be simplified by reducing the number of cams and nuts to one set each. Cams go in and out faster plus the are easier to locate. Of course deciding how big the rack will be depends on the difficult nature of the climbing but in general most climbers require less protection than they place on their rack. Take more 60cm slings and fewer quickdraws. In this way you encounter less rope drag which is a must when linking pitches together. Rack onto a should sling rather than your harness gearloops. In this way the rack can be switched over from partner to partner with minimum time wasted. Use two pieces of bombproof gear for the belay anchor rather than three and tie off the pieces with your rope instead of using slings. A cord-de-lette works well but does take practice in order to not waste precious time. Have a repertoire of belay techniques you can incorporate depending on the severity of the pitch. Know how to do a shoulder and hip belay. Belay through the belay anchor using just a overlapping close hitch.

KEEP IT LIGHT

Every thing you wear or carry is weight. Even the lightest equipment adds up and will slow you down, tire you out and will contribute to not getting up your desired route unless you give paramount importance to how much each piece of gear and clothing weighs. Can you substitute your heavy oversized carabiners for smaller wire-gates that weight a few grams less. Do you really need 22cm length screws when 17cm length ones work just as well. Can you get away with a smaller and lighter belay device. Do you ALWAYS drink two or three quarts of liquid or generally do you stay dehydrated and drink less? One quart weights two pounds which is quite a lot of extra weight to carry if you don't use it. Drink it or lose it!! Do you really need that extra pair of gloves or cap?



A good way to force a light pack onto yourself is to carry only a small pack and NOT overstuff it. The old adage of "whatever size pack you have you will fill" is very true. Carry a smaller pack and you will have less weight. Think about what weight you can take away not what you can add. In today's climbing culture we have a gimmick for just about any level of comfort or purpose. Thoreau's adage of "Simplify, simplify, above all simplify" is most important here. Don't carry a piece of gear if it only has one use to it. Bubble wrap insulates, is padding and its weight is practically non-existent. Climbing clothing is fashionable clothing. Critique what you wear. Is an item going to be used as equipment or to make you look sexier in the photos? Do you really need a fork and spoon for a bivouac meal or can you do without.

KNOW YOUR PARTNER

Having a partner who is able to move at least as fast or faster than you is critical. If you are always waiting for your partner to catch up it quickly becomes tiring and demoralizing. Understanding how your partnership climbs together, communicates, moves, not only speeds things up but also makes your climb much safer and more fun. Having a clearly defined way to communicate that you both understand helps reduce misunderstanding and increase safety.

MOVE TOGETHER

The single best way to maximize the entire team moving upwards is to move together on moderate terrain. Nobody said that this technique is 100% safe yet when practiced enough by two or three partners who know each other's movements well, this technique (simul-climbing) can be safer than being belaying on ground which may be dangerously exposed to objective dangers. However, this is a technique which must be practiced ahead of time so it is learned and understood well.



Always make sure that when simul-climbing you have one or two points of protection between you. As long as the rope remains relatively taught between each climber everyone is protected. Both climbers should go at a steady pace and treat this technique as if one were soloing. This is especially important when the leader is climbing over the crux and the second is on moderate ground. Another safe option to try is using a Wild Country Ropeman or a Petzl Tiblock to improve safety when climbing.



The leader would place a Ropeman upside down on a very solid anchor and place the rope through it. Placed this way the rope would run easily through it when the leader is climbing. In this manner should the second fall then the Ropeman cam would jam against the rope and stop the fall while not putting any pressure on the leader. A Petzl Tiblock can be used in the same way but is less trustworthy. The Tiblock has teeth which can shear the sheath of a rope. A Ropeman does not have any teeth and therefore will not damage the rope.



It is important to note that when setting up the Ropeman at the anchor it be able to stop and upward AND downward fall, that it be matched to the locking gate carabiner that it is clipped into and that it locks correctly when screwed. This technique seems to work best when using a thin rope. Anywhere from an 8mm to 9.2 works best. Anything bigger and there is too much rope drag. Be sure and play around with this system on something easy so that you understand completely how it works and how to avoid any dangers that might arise.

LEAVE EARLY

Pretty much the earlier you leave for your intended ascent the better are your chances of success or survival. I've had to turn back from many summits early because I ran out of time, ran out of light, didn't get there ahead of the party in front of me etc. all these failures could have been avoided if I'd gotten out of the sack just one hour earlier. Alpine climbing is an adventure and adventures always have unexpected twists and turns. You will be better prepared for the unknown if you and your partner get an earlier than planned start to your day.

DRESS SERIOUSLY

If you want to move fast then dress lightly so that you don't become too warm and comfortable. Dressing seriously means that you wear a baselayer underneath a windproof top (pants and bottoms) and you use movement as a means to keep warm. Should you slow down enough whereby you get chilled and start to get very cold then ADD an insulating layer on top of what you are already wearing. If you really want to see how light you can go purchase a micro wind/water-resistant nylon shell from Go Lite or Patagonia along with a thin silk balaclava, liner gloves, Petzl Tika headlamp, a few GU packets into a chalk bag and wrap your lightweight insulating jacket around your waist for speed.

DRINK AND EAT

Sometimes nothing is more debilitating than becoming thirsty and experiencing low blood sugar. Hitting the wall or bonking is no fun and is easy to do because the all-absorbing attention we give to our movement over rock and ice sometimes distracts us from how dehydrated and hungry we have become. I make a rule to keep some power gel or GU handy in my outside pockets so that I can easily and quickly take a bit of 100-200 calories when I need it without slowing myself down. Done regularly a person should be able to go for hours if they snack along the way in order to keep their glucose level up. Becoming dehydrated is just as tiring as not having enough food. For this reason it is worth looking into having a pack which will hold a water bladder with a tube you can suck on. In this manner you will be able to have continuous little gulps of moisture to keep you motivated and feeling fresh. These days most bladders seem to be pretty leak-proof and the only kink to work out is how to keep them from freezing. I still haven't worked that one out yet so I usually just climb in a state of dehydration which isn't good.

TRAIN AND TRAIN SOME MORE

Lastly there is no substitute for being physically and mentally trained for your project. Climb easy rock in poor weather in mountain boots. Climb regardless of weather conditions or how hungover you may be from the excesses of the evening before.

Train, train and train some more.

© 2003-2010 Jack Roberts. All rights reserved. Site / bluetrope.


CLIMBING magazine....BITD.  The story of the first winter ascent of the GCC Direct, Mt. Kitchener,  Jack Roberts and Tobin Sorenson.  It was cold enough the colors froze to shades of gray..

Ya gotta like it...

Short, but dang, it looks hard!


Palenville Coronary from Chris Lamme on Vimeo.

Rock'in the new Petzl Ergo!

Ya just gotta love those sticks (trick sticks) on the ice.  They are good..just not that good :)


Gordon McArthur from Karman Line Productions on Vimeo.

Ice Screw length?

Flow Reversal in typical conditions, early Winter 2008.

When the original Chouinard screws came out...you know 30 plus years ago,,,most every one had the rack full of 22 and 28cm screws and maybe a Snarg or tow.  A full rack then was 8 may be even 10 screws.

Kinda shocking really just how few screws we used BITD for some fairly steep climbing.  Considering it generally took two men and a boy to place  the screws of the day in cold ice.  

I don't mind giving an opinion (ya that is obvious) of what I wear or what I think on most things but the tools or crampons that  you choose are up to you.  Same with the other gear you use.  The idea here is info, comparisons and opinions.  Choices.  The length of screws I choose generally depends on the quality of ice.   Ice quality isn't something always easily known from the ground when sorting gear.  The links below offers some ice screw info that has been passed around in the community.  That info convinced me to change what I use for ice screw sizes a few years ago.  

This is not a blog post I would have ever thought to make but Runar asked so here ya go. 




My climbing rack includes BD Express and Grivel Helix screws in the 10cm through 16cm sizes.  Generally I like the 13s if given a choice and I have good ice.   I'll use a 22 or a 16 for V threads.  But prefer a 22.

That said a number of better climbers than I use only 16cm tubes and up for everything,

More here.

http://www.jjgeng.com/html/body_ice_screw.html

http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=095232e4-4caf-49ec-8495-9c9e00a633da


More of Oscar on Flow Reversal in really fat conditions, late winter 2010.