Fitting and the detailing on climbing packs?

If you look around the Internet for so called "climbing packs" the prices might well run between $30 and darn near $1000.  Yep..a $1000!   Of those listed damn few actually will fulfill the hype as real "climbing packs" in my opinion.

This will be the first of a several part discussion on climbing packs.

If you were paying $200 for a pair of shoes would you accept a pair of size 11s for your size 9 feet?  Of course not.  "Dumb Ass" question isn't it?  How about a $25 pair of flip flops?  Would you take a size 6 for your size 11s?  Likely same answer..."dumb ass" question. Why bother to ask or answer?

There are a few things in the out door industry that really bug me.   They bug me because over the years they have gotten worse instead of better.   Climbing is generally a sport that people grow out of.  The rare exceptions are Fred Becky, a few of the great Alpinists that are still alive and likely the majority of the the crew over at Supertopo :)

From my perspective boot technology hasn't made any huge advances in 30 years.  Climbing packs...nothing there either.  Crampons....sheesh don't get me started on crampons!

But today the topic is packs.  More specifically climbing packs, their build quality and how to fit one so it does what is should for you in the mountains.

Any climbing pack is going to be a soft frame.  Generally a really soft frame as in only a foam pad stuffed in some manner into the  inside the pack.  The frame doesn't mean a lot (but it is important) but what does mean a lot is the length of the back panel.  That back panel must fit your physical measurements or the pack will be pretty useless.

In turn the correctly fit pack and your own anatomy will define how big the pack is.   When you are talking climbing packs don't expect a 18L pack to fit you well if you are 6'3" or a 45L pack to be any better if you are 5'2".

Most of us will be best served with packs in the 30 (1800) to 40 (2500) Liter range for actual climbing while still having something useful for getting back and forth from the climbs.  Why those sizes?  Because most backs will fit between those pack volume sizes.

John Bouchard:
"To get an idea of how important each pound is when you’re climbing hard climbs where you can’t afford to haul the pack, try doing pullups with weights around your waist. Start with 5 lbs. and keep increasing in 5 lb. increments. For me, each 5 lbs. decreases my performance by 20%!"

http://www.wildthingsgear.com/wild-things/stories/light-is-right.html

If you want to actually climb difficult technical ground, limit the weight in your pack and clothing to 20% of you actual body weight.  For me that is 38# total or less.  38# for boots, clothing, water, food and the technical gear!   If you climb with me and you weigh 50# less we don't carry equal loads.  If your total body weight is 125 pounds your entire kit from sleeping bag to boots will be smaller and lighter.   That will make up for some of what you carry but not all.   Your total load's weight should be 25 pounds!   It is much much easier in the alpine to have a partner of similar size physically for a number of good reasons.  This is just one of them.   If you want to climb hard, climb smart first.

Sure you can climb with more weight.  But you will want to know how to haul a pack if you do. Or get your partner to climb in a pack and just take one pack.  Here are a couple of tips for fitting a  pack.  First fill the pack up.  Not overly stuffed just "full".  I tend to use ropes for this.  Ropes run 6 to 8 pounds for a 60m rope.  With these size packs 3 or 4 ropes max will fill one up and give a soft but firm pack with an appropriate amount of weight to try them on for sizing.

With the straps loose the thing should sit on the top of your butt.  You should have full range of motion with your head and neck with a helmet on.  Can you look up and not touch the pack?  You need to be able to.

This is a good fit length wise on the back.  The pack is sitting on the top of the butt.

Hip belt is too high here and way too wide for the weight it will carry

It only takes an inch or too either way on th back panel length to make a pack almost totally useless.

Bounce the pack up a bit and suck in the hip belt.  It is a climbing pack so ditch the damn padded hip/waist belts that are 3 inches or wider.  They are worthless with any weight you can actually climb in.   Quick wayt to tell if the pack designer has a clue about climbing in fact.    A simple 1 1/2" or 2" webbing waist belt is enough for anything you'll want to carry up to 3 days or so.  Less will do as well if the pack actually fits.  You don't want to constrict your hips or abs when you tighten the waist belt.  Use soem common sense and let your body tell you if the pack fits.
 
I get called a "girl" on occasion.  But from what I have seen a woman's climbing pack should be fitted no different than a man's.  The ladies are more difficult to fit in the shoulders but the fit should be the same imo.   Start with the correct pack length and then go from there.  I am not a woman so I can't say that with any certainty.  And one of my partners has yet to be convinced she can wear a hip belt of that size and in that position.   Her worry is keeping the freedom of her hip joints.  She has a new pack coming that is being built on the ideas I have posted here.  As are all of my custom made packs.  The experience from that new pack should tell us a lot.   So there will be a woman's insight following up on packs and pack fitting in the near future.   Ladies, if you disagree with what I am writing here please tell me and why? 

Once you have tighened the waist belt let it settle down where it is the most comfortable for you.  That is generally on your hip bones...and a inch or two below your Iliac crest and setting on the top of your ass for support.  Yes, both boys and girls have enough ass to support a climbing pack's weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliac_crest

My finger indicates the top of my Iliac crest.  My hip belt is most comfortable and able to carry a majority of the pack's weight if it is located several inches below the Iliac crest.

This should be a comfortable position on your hips as it is where most of the weight will be, or should be anyway.   Carried by your hips not your shoulders...even with just 20% or LESS of your body weight involved.   Then pull in the shoulder straps.   Take about 40% (or less) of the pack's weight on to your shoulders now.  But not too tight.  Don't lift the pack off your hips.   Do you still have full head clearance with a helmet?  If the answer is no...ditch the pack...it sucks for climbing.

This is OK but getting a little high on the back..so likely too long of back panel and we shouldn't be seeing air between pack and back.

This is a better fit, note the curve on the shoulder straps going up and then over the shoulders.

My body position here sucks for the picture as I am bent over and my head down so the pack looks short.  It isn't.

Make sure the pack straps come out of the pack narrow enough that they will stay on your shoulders.
I am 6'1" and 185.  And I can still find shoulder straps that are way to wide for my shoulders and how they have developed.  I don't have tiny shoulders but I have a hard time getting a tank top to stay on them unless it is tight.  My shoulders aren't flat on top.  If the pack straps are too wide coming out of the pack they are simply unusable for me.  I need 2" between them, but prefer no more.  You might need more or less.

If you are still good, with a 60/40 split on the weight now,  check your sternum strap.  It is the last adjustment.  Too high or low and too tight will cut your breathing.  Pay attention here.  Get it adjusted right.  Big chested men and women will have a problem with this one if the shoulder straps and sternum strap aren't able to be moved and adjusted right.  The sternum strap will really aid in how secure the pack feels on your back and your balance because of it.  Get it right and a decent size pack is easy too climb and ski in.  You'll seldom notice it if you limit yourself to that 20% over all weight  number.

Too short of shoulder straps and too high of sternum strap

Correctly fit shoulder straps and a better position on me for the sternum strap

Depending on how a woman is built the sternum strap might have to be located much higher than on a man.

Make sure your shoulder straps come out of the back, go up a tiny bit and then over the shoulder and down.  Too much up on the shoulder strap and the pack is too small in the back length.  No curve there or worse yet the shoulder straps going down over your shoulder and the pack is too big in the back length.

Classic case of too small of back panel for my physical size and too short of pack straps.

There is no way to make this pack fit me.  I'd be much better off with a longer pack instead of longer shoulder straps.  But note that the waist belt and bottom of the pack is in the right position.

I am actually climbing here in the same pack.  The problem would seem obvious although the pack is reasonably comfortable because I am not carrying a lot of weight.  (although I carried 3 days worth of food/gear on this trip) But really no matter how cool I think this pack is, for me this one sucks because of the limited back panel and shoulder strap sizing.  A 17.5" back panel is never going to fit my 21" back.

Even with the lid off this is a much bigger pack than the green 27L pictured but more importantly a much better fitting pack for my body size.  It is also much easier to climb technical ground with or ski in.  A better picture of my personal  pack fit.  It may not be perfect but it is very close.  The waist belt is not buckled which allows me to play with the pack's fit and shoulder straps in this picture.

Don't try to put you size 11 feet in a size 6 shoe!

More importantly don't let some lame ass salesperson or pack maker do it for you!
This isn't rocket science folks.  But neither is it easy to get a really good fit.  Packs have been used for millennium, the more simple they are generally the easier they are to carry.  Find the packs that fit you the best and then make side by side comparisons to others of similar back panel size.

Only your boots should take more fitting than you climbing pack.   Both will make the difference between relative comfort and an unpleasant trip.

In the day of technology and a "app" or every application you are FUBARed if you think of climbing packs in that contact.  The weight in any pack is best carried as close to your back as possible for comfort and balance.  Modern ice tools and crampons can easily go inside these packs.   I do it all the time with Nomics and Dartwins and have yet to damage a pack in the last 3 or 4 years.  I seldom use a lid on a pack but like the option of adding one at will.  

Super light and super tough fabrics are cool.  Most of my packs are made from one form or another.  But it saves mere ounces on even the lightest packs.  It is the suspension and foam pad that are the biggest percentages of weight.  Start adding whistles and bells and the actual  pack material will have an even smaller effect on the over all weight of the pack. 

Soft frame climbing packs have a big margin of error for sizing.  If you are within the norm you should easily be able to find a decent pack in this size range that will fit you.  If not make sure your pack maker or the production pack you want actually fits.  I am  6'1"  but I have a really long back for my body size.  I am 21" from base of neck to top of my hips.  It is not the norm.  I also have a 44" chest when I am in decent shape.  That makes a long pack back with longer shoulder straps fit me better.   Having a good range of travel for my sternum strap makes it more usable as well.

Common sizing info..this from CCW:

"Back sizes are determined by measuring from the tip of the hip bone to the prominent cervical bone near the base of the neck. This is the standard measurement used throughout the industry. Figures given next to each model on the product page correspond to this approximate measurement, not the actual dimensions of the pack. In general, though, our size medium/regular fits people 5'7" to 5' 10" while a large fits those over 5' 10". This varies, as torso lengths vary from person to person. Our packs have non-adjustable harnesses. "

this from Wild Things:

Finding Your Pack Size (Torso Length)



Finding the right pack size for you relies on your torso length, not your height. To find your torso length have a friend measure your spine, using the steps below:

• Find the most prominent vertebrae (C-7) at the back of your neck (tilting your head forward helps). It’s the large bump at about the same level as the top of your shoulders.
• Find the top of your hipbone (the iliac crest). Follow this point around in a straight line to your spine.
• Stand up straight and lay a flexible measuring tape directly against your spine. Measure the distance between points 1 & 2.

Pack Sizing Information

	S	M	L
Torso Length	18	19 1/2	21

Measurements refer to body size, not pack dimensions, and are in inches.

 The single most important thing you need to know on your climbing pack is DOES IT FIT? 

                       PART TWO and Three of Climbing Packs

For part two and three of this series I'll discuss quality of manufacture, the required accessories, fabric choices and over all pack weight.

Pictured here are the same packs cut from different fabrics.

Climbing Packs Part 2

“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery

The very first model Karrimore pack, the Grimpeur, on a snow arete low on the Innominata route, Mont Blanc © rif, Aug 1967

Climbers: Rob Ferguson  (photo by Pete Cartwright)


The Grimpeur pictured above is not a lot different in design simplicity from what I am using for a pack today.  S. House and C. Haley are using similar, very basic pack designs as well.

Two recent posts on one of the climbing forums this past week...

"SO you ask what is so great about a $500 pack that falls apart then? The ride and the W/NW Dyneema material. Despite one of the lower ice axe buckles coming clear off, one of the buckles on the lid snapping in half when i was unlatching it, the buckles that hold the lid on coming undone along with various other buckles just coming undone for no apparent reason and loosing them in the snow...."

and my  totally biased response....
"Man that is so pathetic it makes me want to actually just give you a quality made pack. But then you could buy one for $150 delivered so I'll restrain myself."

What I didn't want this series of  blog posts to be was a advertisement for the custom packs I use.  They are after all custom packs.  But then all my packs I pay retail for and have yet to pay more than $250 for any one of them, including delivery.   Generally the packs I use the most are about half that price, including the ones Dave and I are using and pictured below.  So it is hard to ignore the stark differences in price and quality.   I'm not here to  bash anyone either just a little reality check from the packs I saw being used in the last month or so.  That said I will eventually point out some pretty bad examples imo of current packs.  So don't kill the messenger here.   I have no dog in the fight just reporting what I saw and my opinions on the topic. My suggestion to you as a smart consumer here is read between the lines...take a close look at what you see and  decide according to your own needs.

I have seen and used a lot of packs over the years.  The design and workmanship I still find fascinating.  If you are new to climbing specific packs (yes there is such an animal) or have yet to find one that really fits you hopefully this group of blogs on climbing packs will help you get more for your dollar and the best pack for your own needs.

As I repeat often and honestly mean,  "what I use may not be what you want to use and what works for me may not work for you."      And it pays to remember I am not trying to sell you anything.  The info and opinions here is free.  The real question is.....is the information useful to you?

The same custom CCW packs are pictured here made from different fabrics.

2lbs 7oz. for the red ballistics cloth below and  2 lbs. even for the black Spectra ripstop pack pictured above.

Mark Twight @

http://www.marktwight.com/discourse.php?id=4

"June 24-26 Steve House, Scott Backes and I climbed the Czech Direct on Denali. The first ascent, in 1986, required 11 days and approximately 1000' of fixed rope. Kevin Mahoney and Ben Gilmore made the second ascent over 7 days in May, 2000. We climbed it in 60 hours non-stop. We carried no bivouac gear apart from a 2lb Down or Polarguard jacket each and two MSR XGK stoves in order to melt snow fast enough to stay hydrated. Starting with just 22oz of fuel for each, these ran out of gas at hour 48. A total of 55lbs was split between two packs, (18lbs were water), leaving the leader pack-free to move fast.

The Czech Direct is 9000' high but only 5500' present any climbing difficulty: ice climbing up to 90°+ and rock to UIAA V+ (USA 5.9). We belayed 31 (60m) pitches, simul-climbed some terrain and soloed the rest including the first 1000' where the Czechs belayed 9 pitches. After crossing the bergschrund at 6am, we passed the Czech's 2nd bivouac site at 8am and their 3rd bivy by 11 and reached their 4th at 2pm where we brewed and ate. The climbing was fantastic and there was a lot of it. The Czech topo showed 24 pitches of UIAA III (USA 5.4) or harder. Ice conditions were such that we never holstered our tools -- but we did have to file them twice during the climb."

In his book Extreme Alpinism, Twight for better or worse defined how much a climbing pack should weigh.

The magic number?  Less than 3.8 pounds. 

Twight also said, "frameless packs work fine for loads up to 35# and carrying more than 35# usually guarantees failure" 

There are two points I am trying to make here.  The first is most of us carry too much crap around and don't pay attention to what it is we put in our packs.  The other is the pack materials (fabric used ), the weight and the costs don't have to be exotic or astronomical to have a awesome climbing pack.  Here is why.

The pack I am using today is based on a 70's vintage Chouinard FISH pack.   The FISH name came from the smell of the early ballistics nylon used for that pack's body.  When I finally retired the pack in the '90s the shoulder strap seams were literally rotting and falling apart.  But the pack body was still intact and usable after hundreds of miles of hiking and thousands of vertical feet of climbing and hundreds of feet of hauling.

The heavily modified FISH pack's weight in ballistics nylon with a foam pad?  1lb 15oz.

Bottom line?  Nothing wrong with good pack cloth fabrics even today.  Yes they add some weight to a climbing pack compared to the super lwts.   But in a 35/40 Liter sack size like what I am using it is 7 oz of long term durability.  It is easy to get well under 3# on a realistic climbing size pack these days.

My personal climbing pack and its design here:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/my-climbing-pack.html

More on climbing packs in general here:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/12/climbing-packs.html

I like most I suspect I have been easily swayed by the outdoor industry and their paid advertising.  I see gear being used on hard climbs, I want to emulate those climbers and their climbs and a good place to start I figure is having like gear.  Right?  Well it turns out that much of that gear is either given freely or given at such discounts that it is hard not to accept the favor if it is something you will use.  So the guys with the biggest budgets get their products show cased more often in the climbing rags, climbing forums  and on places like this,  climbing blogs.  That gets spun into the best makers even adding labels from the biggest players on to some of the highest quality goods.  Or the weakest attempts at gaining credibility simply claiming it is your product being used when it clearly (to those who really know) it isn't. 

OK lets talk a bit about pack design.  Climbing packs should be simple and sturdy in construction.  The design and pattern for a good climbing pack is how ever pretty complicated.

Just one example of pattern cutting and complicated or simple design efforts.  A pear shaped pack on top and a cylindrical pack shape on the bottom.  Each has its place.

Good look at the S shaped curved back panel pattern from a BI Warthog.   Simple pack complicated design.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/07/blue-ice-new-warthog-alpine-pack.html

All three of  these packs have only two main vertical seams and are made from two main pieces of fabric (front and back)  plus the bottom piece which is the third.  

No where near the total but try counting the load bearing seams on this pack.  The number of pieces of fabric and the resulting seams left untaped in this particular pack surprised me.

Try counting the number of seams and fabric pieces in your favorite pack.  Every seam is a weak point in the pack's design.  It is much better to cut a perfect pattern than it is to build a shaped pattern by using many different pieces of fabric and sewing them together.  Even the very best fabrics easily fail at a poorly sewn seam.   Use a poorly designed pattern, add bad sewing and quality control and you end up with packs that fall apart in use.

This from an email exchange earlier in the week with one of my climbing partners:

"I bought my white one 30L NWD (which is now tearing apart and all taped up) in April 2010. Its my "go to" alpine multi day pack pretty much in summer in Cascades.  Oh, did I tell you what I found the other day?  One of the shoulder straps attachment seams is half torn apart which implies I need to fix it (again!). I am afraid it would not survive another trip."

Mind you this is a less than 2 year old,  current production, $500 retail pack the owner is discussing with me!   And it is not the same $500 pack being discussed on an Internet forum at the top of this blog!  Just the same US domestic manufacturer.  I've seen this particular $500 NWD pack in person and truthfully...it is duct tape holding it together.   I wouldn't personally take it on another climb.  Happily it is not my pack or my choice.  'Cuz I would be pretty pissed.   I'm being kind here by not posting the pictures.

Take a look inside your favorite pack.

Here are some examples of well built packs and their stitching and tape jobs.   The FISH pack not so much.  But hard to argue its durability after 20 years of hard climbing and ZERO required repairs.  I included the last pack pictured from a Canadian manufacture that uses multiple seams and fabric pieces with an exceptionally well fitting pattern that is sewn extremely well.  Lots of ways to build a quality pack.  Pick your own wisely.

It is worth noting the bit of fabric here to back up the externally sewn accessory box/X  sewing pattern.  The tape job on the seam is also well done imo.

 This one's sewing is very clean and much more likely to hold up because of multiple stitch lines.  These are the shoulder strap tacks.  It is also a well worn 3 year old pack.  In fact it is the the red ballistics nylon one I have posted any number of pictures of in the past.  The clones to this pack in Spectra and Dyneema ripstop look the same internally.   All the sewing and taping is very clean and tidy.
 

Clean taped seams here.  And just as likely cleanly sew seams under the tape.  Note the dbl seams under the tape and the double sewn over seams just outside the tape on this pack bottom.  All of that is why these packs will take year after year of abuse and stay usable.  Not a season or two of use and a roll of duct tape to keep them just functionable. 

Here is my 30+ plus year old Chouinard FISH pack.  Good enough sewing and no taped seams...which was the norm for a $40 pack in the late 70's.   The sewing looked like shit but lasted  through 20 years of hard use.  But why would you put up with this level of  workmanship today at 5 or worse yet 10 times the price.

I won't. 

This one is from a Canadian manufacture that uses multiple seams and fabric pieces with an exceptionally well fitting pattern that is sewn extremely well.  This one is 5+ years old and used hard.  Internally it still looks new.

A climbing pack in use!

Alley Swinton climbing, Dave Searle photo

http://davesearle.me/

Let me leave you with some facts.  The actual weights of packs I have had here on my digital scale.

CCW 35l custom climbing sack, Spectra rip stop, 2# even (based on a Ozone)
Same CCW in ballistics nylon 2# 7oz
Same CCW in Dyneema r/s 1# 12oz
REI Flash 18L 9.2oz 
Arcteryx Khazri 35l  2# 13oz 
CCW Chaos, custom 21" back, Spectra r/s, 3# 10oz
Jensen 4oz. red pack cloth LG 1# 11oz
Jensen green 8oz Cordura 2#3oz
Cilo 30L in 210d Dyneema r/s 17" back  2# 9oz

Part 3 of "climbing packs" will be a discussion of what IMO you really need on a alpine climbing specific sac.

Climbing packs part 3

"I have a seam ripper, a pair of professional sewing scissors, a hand awl and a Swiss Army knife. Generally the tools required to turn a production pack into a "alpine climbing" pack that I can live with."  db


That was a thought I have had on a regular basis from the '70s on.  Same thought that occasionally runs through my mind today on occasion.  I know better now (and have a deeper set of pockets) so instead I prefer to sit down and design a pack that I don't have to cut up.  Trick then is getting a skilled set of hands to make the thought a reality.

© rif, Aug 1969

Climbers: Rob Ferguson (photo by Pete Cartwright)

The basic kit for alpine climbing hasn't really changed in the last 50 years.  The smart guys getting things done, haven't carried more than 20% of their body weight.  As time has passed the gear has gotten more durable, warmer and much, much lighter.

What I used on Deltaform's Super Coulior in 1976 isn't any different than what I pack today for A-Strain.  Sure the gear has changed but the basic items, rope, tools, boots, hardware haven't.  We can climb faster (even old guys like me) and do harder technical routes with ease because of the new gear.  But the human powering the effort up hill hasn't changed much.  Smarter may be from the experience of generations before us but certainly no better than the guys suffering it out on the European North faces during the '30s.

Jack with a simple pack sans lid and his typical smile, 2009.

The reason I want to go down memory lane here is this blog series discusses climbing packs accessories.   What I am about to suggest as a  climbing pack and show you is not the norm.  Every climbing partner I have was at first extremely reluctant to steadfastly against using this style of pack.  They aren't for everyone and they aren't for every trip.

But with a little imagination and some thought you might find this is the best pack style you have ever used for actual technical climbing.

Canadian ice, 1978, no lid on Chouinard's Baltoro pack.

Below from Dow Williams, April 2012 on the Mnt. Project forums,

"hmmm, been climbing a bit...full time for the past 15 years, guiding, alpine V and VI routes, ice, rock, you name it....can't say I own a "leader" pack...is this something dead bird came up with to sell a new expensive pack that is suppose to make one climb better?

In any regard, keep in mind, you are only as fast as your second....don't load him/her down with a non-"leader" pack, whatever that might be and expect to move any faster because you have a cool "leader" pack on...a classic route where you need to use low profile packs is Beckey Chouinard in the Bugaboos...I have guided this route...and can assure you...that if your partner is not experienced enough to swap leads and is going to serve as a 2nd for the entire trip...you better make sure his/her pack is no more cumbersome to climb with than whatever this "leader" pack business is....or you won't make the route in a day which is much preferred....unless of course you want to carry a bigger (I presume non-"leader") pack and bivy."

Climbing is..."a thinking man's sport."  Dow has much of the details already covered above.

Remember the 20% rule.   There are no leader's packs because you carry a climbing sac that first, fits you.  The pack size is defined by your body size and what kind of weight you can actually climb difficult technical ground with.  You should build or pick out a pack that fits YOUR body size perfectly first.  Then you can climb with it loaded with as little as required or as much as you can realistically carry. 

This from my 'friend" Tom Ripley over on the UKC web sit last month.

"These days do you actually use any gear enough to wear it out though?
Or just buy the next gimmick when you got bored? "

Kinda a funny question coming from a 20 year old kid. (and no offense to 20 year old kids) So we will give Tom a little slack here. In my climbing career I don't think I have ever tolerated a "gimmick" and I am never bored. Most of my gear from the '70s I still own. Including my Chouinard FISH pack I still used when very long in tooth and well past needing to be replaced. There is a reason for that. Some gear is hard to come by and difficult to replace with anything remotely usable.

The original Karrimore Grimpeur in the first picture of this blog was used, abused and never replaced. Just as my FISH pack was used, abused and only recently replaced with the same. (or damn close anyway) As I said really good kit is hard to fine. Gimmicks..they come and go without hesitation or afterthought. Our young Mr. Ripley will given enough time in the sport eventually figure that out.

More here on the story of the very first Karrimore Grimpeur:

http://homepage.mac.com/inov8/Compass/karrimorimages.html
If you are not into really basic climbing sacks or want to learn about what I think is a better climbing sac stop here. The sizing and fit for a true climbing sack have been covered. The rest is again personal opinion. Likely $150 or so will get you a duplicate of the pack I use. IMO it is a good bet that it will be the best climbing sac you'll ever own. But there isn't much to them. And they don't climb by themselves.
But if you aspire to emulate this style of climbing in the mountains..... read on.

John Bouchard climbing on the Grands Charmoz, August 1975 photo by Steve Zajchowski.

The pack is a Karrimore.

"A rope, a rack, and the pack on your back, is Alpinism!" To the uneducated eye the climbing sacks I use are really simple.  As I have said previous, simple sacs but complicated designs.   The packs show above are all the same basic design,  A single daisy chain stitched up the front to ease the strain of hauling the pack.  The pack is uncluttered so it hauls well.  The down side (if there actually is one) is everything needs to go in the pack and not hung from the outside.  Minimalistic indeed.  The lid is detachable on these particular packs.  There are two pockets in the lid plus strap on patches sewn to the top.  The main pocket in the lid will hold two, 1 liter water bottles.  The smaller bottom pocket it a typical map or guide book size.  The single lid attachment buckle on the outside is covered to protect it if you need to haul the sac.  The dbl Fastex buckles above the shoulder straps that latch on the lid from behind are not covered.  Velcro seals the lid between the shoulder straps in the "short" position.  The lid snugs down tightly above the Velcro in the extended position on an overly full sac.   I will interchange the terms *sac* and *pack* a lot from here on out.  A proper climbing pack to me is a "climbing sac". All good to this point right?  And likely what is pictured above is as stripped a pack as most will ever want.  But it is not the pack I climb with generally.  This little internal pocket opened a lot of options and ideas for me to use a even simpler pack.  Funny how this all works. A tiny bit of design effort changed how even I looked at this decades old design.  And it changed the packs I climb with and has made them even more useful to me and simpler yet. My ID, the car keys, the camera if it isn't in my jacket, some extra GU and a headlamp go in this pocket.  Spare socks or gloves sometimes and a hat as well when I think about it.  Basically anything I don't want "lost" and rolling around in the bottom pack.  The pocket is big enough...but not that BIG. 2 liters of water is most easily replaced with a stove.   Or just as easily carried in a hydration bladder internally.   So the importance of having a top pocket can be easily forgotten...then left behind all together. So here is my current climbing sac.  Not to every one's taste for sure.  But something to think about when you decide a new "climbing sac" is required.   Built right you'll own it a long, long time..so make sure it is a design you can live with. Full of ropes the pack weights in at 25#.  A full compliment of actual alpine climbing kit?  Right at 30#.  Just under my 20% self imposed 38# limit. It should be no secret here at Cold Thistle that the majority of what I write is simply me slogging through the piles of gear I have an interest in and by doing so hopefully it enables me to make the best decisions and selections for my own use. This three part series started because I was appalled at the pack fit and quality of some of my partner's packs.  Enough so that I have bought and given away packs.  It pays to remember that if you aren't soloing, your partner and his gear are actually a part of "your kit". What I learned from this exercise it I want a really basic pack  Since it is what I use the majority of time anyway.  So last week I placed another order for a pack sans lid or any way to add a lid.   It is very similar to the pack pictured above just no Velcro or the extra set of straps to latch the lid down.  The daisy chain and lid tie down is simply bar tacked at the packs opening.   But other than that it is really the same basic alpine sac I have been using for 30+ years. Just a more complicated design.   Old habits die hard I guess. Here is my new build sheet from Randy @ CCW: Pack 1 OZONE 210d Spectra (Dane) ------------------ 1. Custom sizing 21" back (+2.5") 2. Fish bottom pattern 3. No lid or attachments of any kind    (-front daisy but without top strap) 4. pull down shoulder straps instead of "pull up" 5. main bag has a zippered "guide book" pocket...with a little clip for keys? 6. thicker shoulder straps foam- 2" longer 7. Perlon haul loop 8. dbl rope straps across the top of the pack 9. half length extension with draw string 10. no double bottom And the specs for my original CCW alpine sacs: Custom sizing, 21" FISH bottom pattern 2 liter+ water bottle size top pocket 2nd zippered pocket in bottom of the lid with key holder Zippers reversed on the pockets for use on hanging belays pull down shoulder straps instead of "pull up" main bag has a zippered "guide book" pocket covered lid buckle which protects it while being hauled removable foam pad oversize/thickness on the shoulder straps Perlon haul loop which is easier to clip on and off the anchor in difficult stances dbl strap patches on lid dbl rope straps across the top of the pack dbl bottom 10" extension with draw string lid is extendable and removable bar tacked daisy chain on the bottom of the lid strap Finally for those interested.   I took my pack and loaded it with the typical gear I would take waterfall cragging or alpine climbing in Canada.  Loaded it a bit heavy @ what ended up being 35# even to make a point.  Typically I don't carry all the hardware and the rope.  Or this much hardware very often.  Everything pictured is gear that was sitting waiting to be put away from out last trip to Canada so not unrealistic either.    Helmet or rope and may be both could just as easily go inside the pack. ready to close it up and strap on my 1/2 twin ropes and helmet above and below: Not my best pack job but easy enough to carry Here is what went into the loaded  pack pictured above: 13 food and GU packs 2 dozen Advil Metolius gear sling 12 Grivel Helix short and med screws and one 22cm in a cover and with caps intact 8 sewn QDs and 16 biners Locker and Reverso 6 cams various sizes form 1" to 3" 4 Large stoppers 5 pins, knife blade to 3/4" baby angle Petzl harness Grivel Umbilicals 2 ? 2 head lamps 2 spare battery packs 3 lighters Snow Peak stove med MSR fuel canister GSI cook kit spare scarf and Buff 2 spare gloves one 60m Beal Ice Twin Patagonia Knifeblade pullover Patagonia Nano Puff pullover RAB Generator Alpine Jacket 1 liter Nalgene bottle a pair of Petzl Dartwins a pair of Petzl Nomics

James Blench on the hourglass of Deltaform, early '80s. Gregg Cronn photo

Blue Ice, the new Warthog alpine pack!

Finally back to some alpine climbing content!  It is almost August after all...skiing has to stop some time right?  Well for the moment anyway...I want another run from the top of Rainier before I am done skiing for the season!

If you have seen this:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/my-climbing-pack.html

You know I am into really basic climbing packs.  And I continue to use really simple climbing packs.  Once in awhile I get side tracked and try the newest options that interest me.  Of course I have used the older Blue Ice packs, the 45, the 30 and the Mono among others.  But I am pretty set in what I think works.

The Mono has kept my attention but I've been too lazy to get that review done.  Some how it seems a conflict of interest since I sell Blue Ice gear as well.   And the fact my wife has stolen my personal Mono.  Hard to write it up.  I'll work on that review when she is out of town and I have my hands on the Mono again.

But the new Warthog is hard to ignore (as you can see by the color).   No way anyone is sneaking this one off without me knowing.  So I am going to give you my take on it now before it happens.   

If you look at the custom CCW packs I have Randy make for myself (30L) you'll likely notice the similarities of the Blue Ice Warthog (27L) my custom packs and the original, stellar CCW Ozone.  First is they are very close in size, with the Warthog being the smallest of the bunch..  Second they are are really simple packs with very complicated and intricate patterns, which takes a high degree of  skill to sew.

I'd really like to take credit for some of the Warthogs design work.  But sadly I can't.  Not even a tiny bit.   I first saw the early prototypes of the Warthog at the Blue Ice offices last March.  I was impressed then because it is a pack I might have designed if given the chance.  More impressed now that I have one in hand.

I probably mentioned this once before.  Back in March one of my partners was looking in Snell's (all over Cham actually) for a new climbing pack.  Randy wasn't interested in more pia custom work.   So Matt was out of luck on a custom CCW piece.  Of the two walls full of new packs at Snells' only one Grivel and one Blue Ice offering interested him.  Which should tell you a lot about the currently  available climbing packs.  He made a trip to the Grivel factory first.  And his choice in packs was eventually found worthy on the Ginat among other climbs that winter and spring.

As good as the pack he has is, too bad he didn't get to see this one.

I try lots out a lot of gear.  But having a full set of made to order custom sacs kinda limits my interest in other climbing sacs.  It isn't easy to live up to my admittedly harsh and very critical standards for a climbing pack.  I have put a lot of thought and money into what best works for me.  There is no reason to take second best into the mtns.

Enter the newest, Blue Ice pack, the Warthog!

Love the color.  I Iike that the pack is small, light and simple.  It actually fills the "small pack" gap in my pack line up.  Same kind of sac both Randy and I like a lot but no one seems to be able to sell consistently.   Good shoulder straps on this one and a easily adjustable sternum strap on sliders.

the Sternum straps misaligned on purpose

Two different thicknesses on the foam used  in the shoulder strap.  The thicker stuff is set high in the strap where it can take the bulk of the load.    Straps are attached to the bag via small wings sewn to the pack body.  And sewn cord loops on the straps as well. Nice detail.  The narrow and unpadded waist belt is tape with a buckle and easily removable.  The perfect choice for this pack.  The bottom of the bag is reinforced but not dbl. layered.  All the tie in points are reinforced and ARE dbl layered.  Nice detailing.  I'll say that a lot in this review.  It is worth repeating.

reinforced sewing and taped seams

All the seams are taped internally.  Shoulder straps tighten by pulling them down. There is a full size (water bladder)  internal hydration pocket that has been pleated and bellowed.   It makes a full badder easy to fit.

Hydration pocket and more taped seams

Again nice detailing.  A Velcro hydration hose holder as well.
Thin foam pad is sewn into the pack.   Call it a bivy pad or just pack padding.  Either would be accurate.  But it is not removable.


The packs back has a definitive "S" cut to the back panel.  Huge advantage for fit on a simple climbing pack.

The rather pronounced S shaped bottom of the back panel from the side 

Single lid strap for hold down.  Lid is sewn on tightly to the pack's top hem.  And the straps are the right length.  Elastic keepers on every strap, shoulders, waist and lid.  Another great detail.  Lid is perfectly sized to cover a fully loaded pack with the skirt drawn tight.  None of this stuff is easy to do or more importantly, easy to do right.  There is a hole for your hydration hose through both pack and lid.  And a single rope strap that is fixed via a Fast Tex style nylon buckles made by Duraflex.  Pack is actually sewn in Vietnam under Blue Ice's and  Giovanni's personal supervision..  The lid has three (yes three) pockets all YKK zippers   Two of them are on the out side and one underneath the lid.

The small back pocket also holds a net of sorts that is easy to deploy or store back in the pocket when not in use.  It is made to attach your helmet easily to a full pack.  Helmets aren't the only item the net will hold, just the most obvious.  Jackets pants, skins or crampons can just as easily be stashed under the net  Slick design work on this one. Did I mention I like the color combo.  It is going to be great for pictures :)

The "hair net" on top of the pack

Crampons can go under the lid, with the rope strap holding them in place with the pack body offering some protection from sharp points.  There are two traditional ice axe holders on the pack..both with reinforced dbl layering sewn through attachments.  Easy enough to securely lash on a tool a little less traditional.   A small quick link in place of the mini biners would be even cleaner but I was going with a quick "green" solution.  A little imagination here will go far if you are using the newest technical tools.   Should be little worry on that one.

Wow!  Some sweet looking Nomic hammers there :)

http://coldthistletools.blogspot.com/

The pack closes on a 3"  skirt with a single draw string closure.   The haul loop is flat 3/4" nylon tape that is folded in thirds and sewn to make an easier to manage haul loop which can be connected to the axe upper tabs as well for a 3 point lift.  Again a nice detail.  The back panel on my early production pack is a full 18".  Surprisingly, it is a size I can work with on this pack.  Long shoulder straps and a good pattern on the back panel allow it to fit my long back.

Short or tall most will be able to get a good fit with this pack.   It is a climbing pack, and there is plenty of head clearance while looking up with the helmet of your choice when the pack is fully loaded up.

Cost:  78 Euro
Directly from Blue Ice (it should be close to that here in the US)
Weight is 1# 10.4oz or 750g...on my digital scale.  Right on!
Pack material is Cordura, with a pack cloth externally and a smother material against your back and skin on the shoulders.
I can carry 20 to 25 lbs this one.  That is more than I want to climb with for weight.  Less is always better given the option.

Rope strap, hydration hose hole and short skirt

How big is 27 Liters?  The pack will just hold two 60m 10.5 ropes in the main bag.  With two ropes you can still get the cuff closed, if only barely.  A one liter water bottle, will fit in the top lid pocket with a tiny bit of space to spare for the odd packet of GU to keep you running or the odd bite to eat if you pack small.  Pull out the net for your helmet or other pieces of gear/clothing as required.

John Bouchard BITD with a Karrimore climbing a new mixed route on the Grands Charmoz,  August 1975 with Steve  Zajchowski.

I need to add a few words about Blue Ice.   I am pretty sure everyone in the office climbs.  Easy when you live and work in the best alpine climbing environment i nthe world!   Easy to see the influence by the design work, like the Boa, the Chouca and now the Warthog  that the designers know what they are looking for.  By my acocunt some serious energy and effort went into this pack.  It is the first off the shelf,  production, alpine pack I have seen in several decades that I will climb with.  For those that do remember the old Karrimore Joe Brown pack or a Chouinard Fish pack, the Warthog is better done than either and in modern materials but very similar for what they were designed for.   It is a simple sac.  And for those that actually know what it is to be used for (single push alpinism) it is simply a stellar design, with a great attention to detail and sewn very well.  It is obvious to me it comes from  a group of climbers serious about making good kit...not just any bit of kit.  Bravo to Blue Ice for the effort!

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/02/light-is-always-right-part-duex.html

The party line?

Weight:

720 gr.  (mine came out a bit more @ 750g)
Features:
■helmet holder
■top lid with external & internal pocket
■chest buckle with security whistle
■rope attachment under the lid
■dual ice axe holders
■hydration-compatible
■removeable hipbelt
■safety pocket with key holder

Finishing:
■high quality Duraflex buckles
■durable YKK zipper

Fabrics/material:
Main: 500 denier CORDURA®
Reinforced bottom: 1000 denier CORDURA®
Lining: Nylon ripstop 210D

To build a highly resistant pack we have chosen to work with CORDURA®. CORDURA® is one of the most durable nylon fabric manufactured to date and it is widely used for high end applications and for producing gear where tearing and abrasion resistance are crucial. Moreover, the CORDURA® we use, is certified by Blue Sign, which is an important factor for our philosophy of minimizing our impact on the environment. Read more about CORDURA® on our technologies page.

Product overview:Minimalist backpack for fast and demanding one day ascents.


Design & features:The Warthog 26L is a light, extremely resistant backpack with all the essential accessories you need and nothing more. This is the ideal backpack for light and fast one day climbs on technical routes: it is compact to allow freedom of movement and it is super resistant for the most demanding conditions.

As the larger Blue Ice packs the Warthog can hold two ice axes. The simple system of webbing loops and cord locks allows not only a quick attachment but also a steady hold. Additional features are rope holder, helmet holder, exit for hydration tube and a removable hip belt.

Thanks to its stability, shape, volume and comfort it has proven an excellent pack not only for climbing but also for back country days when skis are to be kept on the feet during the whole ascent.
Ideal uses: single day climbs, mountaineering



(Agreed 100% btw on that observation and bet you'll see some Cham ski guides using the Warthog next winter.  Might be a wise color choice if so ; )

No way it could be just this easy though to put ski on this pack...or could it?  My Se7en Summits strapped right on like the Warthog was made for them.   Next test is to see if the axe loops can haul a 6# ski set up.