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The cold world of skimo & alpine climbing

The cold world of skimo & alpine climbing

Thursday, October 11, 2012

Lance again?

Here is a link to the complete USADA
report on Lance Armstrong.

The referenced George Hincapie signed affadavit can be found here:

I was likely the last to believe it but there should be no doubt LA doped now.


david said...

who cares? why post this? leave the guy alone.

Dane said...

Who cares? I do obviously. Lance has been a role model for me personally, more than once. The truth needs to be told. I still admire what Lance did in several venues (on the bike and with Cancer) . But in the end, when given the chance, he should have come clean imo.

Bruno Schull said...

To David,

Sure, who cares? After all, it's just boys riding bikes, right? Like boys kicking balls, swinging bats, climbing mountains, and so on. Just games. Far more important things to worry about. Far better ways to send money. And the guy's even retired? So why go after him?

Here's why: He is a liar and a cheat. He destroyed peoples' careers, abused his power indiscriminately, and made untold millions by defrauding the public (and continues to do so, I might add). He's a thief. A thief of emotions, and a thief of money. He is also an incredible athlete-no doubt about that--as well as an insanely determined, single-minded, megalomaniac personality. He has also done great things for the cancer research. In short, he's a complex figure.

But, in the end, the truth is important. What people say and do is important. How people live is important, especially how they live in relation to others. Does it matter? Yes, it matters.

Your comment is simply a form of defensive, escapist, passive aggressive posturing. Clearly state what you think about Armstrong. Back up your reasoning with solid evidence. Justify your statements and actions. Otherwise, you're no adding anything to the world.

Dane said...

Spot on Bruno. "He has also done great things for the cancer research." Just wanted to clarify this as it is a gross misperception by many LA supporters. Not that I would count you as a LA supporter Bruno ;) Livestong and the LA foundation stopped supporting Cancer research some time ago and now does only what they call "cancer education and awareness". Outside magazine looked deeper into the LA Foundation and Livestrong in a series of articles recently. (links in the previous LA blogs posts) Those are worth reading and a good insight into another side of LA. As you say, "he's a complex figure". And now we know, sadly, dishonest.

Unknown said...

I care.
Cheating is cheating. Even if you accept the very flawed level playing field argument ("everyone is doing it), he lied every time he claimed to be clean, which was hundreds+. Heroic CA survivor, great athlete, who would have been great clean as well as doped, but a liar and a cheat. The sport is a totally corrupted farce held together by corporate sponsorship and duct tape.
This stuff matters.

akalpinist said...

The cheating isn't what bothers me. Vinokourov, Ulrich and pretty all of the competition at the time have been busted for doping so it really is a level playing field. It was fun to think that Lance's excellence was fairly earned with hard work and determination. There was a great Nike commercial from several year ago where last say "everyone wants to know what I am on. I'm on my bike, bustin my ass for 6 hours a day."
I loved that add. But it was a lie. This what I have a problem with. If he had just come clean from the get go I think most people would be quick to forgive him. But it is hard to forgive someone that lies to your face over and over again.

The Livestrong Foundation has done incredible things to assist those with cancer. One of the best tools they put together is checklist of sorts for those that are terminal or for their families. Preparation for death is something no one ever wants to think about. This guide aids people in getting their affairs in order before their passing. It is an invaluable resource that I have been able to use to help several people over the last few years.

ben said...

Interesting that of the 25 testimonies you call out George as removing all doubt, it says something about how he is perceived.

The "level playing field" argument is nonsense, doping is no more binary than training and it in fact makes for a very tilted playing field.

Dane said...

Interesting? Why? I think most who have kept track over the years trusted Hincapie to be credible and the last guy that would turn on LA. Landis and Hamilton certainly had credibility issues from their own cases. Hincapie stayed "clean" till the very end and out of the limelight.

So most, and certainly I, looked to Hincapie's testimony as a litmus test of what was really going inside his/LA's team.

Dersu said...

what reason would Landis and/or Hamilton have for lying?
I can understand your stance Dane, because of cancer and all thah, but you were just being in deanial, grasping at straws.

ben said...

Interesting only because I and most others had the same reaction. I agree he is one of the most trusted and respected riders out there. Like I said, it says something about the guy (something good).

Dane said...

Lots of reasons for Landis or Hamilton to lie. Same reason Lance has, and still does, MONEY. I know enough to know it was very unlikely Lance didn't dope but I prefered some actual proof. We now have it. I met landis and he lied to my and my wife's face while asking for MONEY. Call me cynical. After that experience I wanted a little more evidence than the stuff of Internet lore.

Dersu said...

Lying about themselves yes, but lying about Lance? What do they get out of this?

It's not stuff of internet lore, it's just a deduction based on the events (won 7 Tours in a row amongst doped competition? c'mon, seriously?) that took place. Was there ever really any doubt about him doping? But yeah, innocent until proven guilty or some such stuff, to which the guilty ones almost always cling to.