Scarpa Phantom Ultra and Scarpa Phantom Guide updates

I got an email pointing out a mistake I made identifying the "Phantom Ultra" as a "prototype Phantom 6000" in Jon Griffith's photo of Steck on le Droites. Thanks for the heads up Will!


Way beyond the sales hype. Jonathan Griffith's photo of Ueli Steck soloing the Ginat on Le Droites early in 2010 in the super lwt version of the Phantom single, the "Ultra". Weight is down around 1600g in weight per pair for a 42, where the Guide is 1800g and the 6000 is 2000g in that size.





This boot is not currently available in North American but is in Europe and England. The over all weight is getting down to an ounce or so of the more traditional, bench mark, fabric "silver bullet" boot, La Sportiva's Trango Extreme Evo Gortex. With a full boot gaiter and better insulation the Ultra offers much more protection in nasty, wet, cold conditions. And most importantly once wet, dries faster than the Trango in my experience. The Ultra, by the numbers is 3.5 oz lighter in my size 45 and $30/40 LESS expensive than the Phantom Guide if you can find it. 3.5 ounces per boot in a size 45. Or another 7 ounces or 198g for the pair.

Part of the weight savings is using the thinner and lighter sole/mid sole system also used on the Phantom 6000 and noted in that review earlier. Lacing inside the Ultra is the same system that is used in the Guide. Slightly different material on the Ultra's inner boot for insulation and a different gaiter material for reinforcement and durability with crampons than the Guide. I get a better fit in my Ultra than my Phantom Guides. That could simply be the difference in specific boots though not boot models. The Ultra seems to dry faster as well. Again could be a subjective call but the inner boot materials are different between the two very similar Scarpa Phantom boots.

While making inquiries about these boots, Scarpa NA and several retailers who stock the Ultra in

England gave similar replies:

"Re: The Ultra,

Boot is less stiff and less warm than the Guide. Sole is very fragile. Sole is not as durable as the Guide. Only the Guide is available in 1/2 sizes."

Me thinks they protest too much. As neither "less stiff or less warm" is true from my experience. No retailer wants to carry such a specialised alpine climbing boot in a full size run which would sell directly against the Phantom Guide even if the Ultra is $40. less expensive. I might even swallow the "less durable" issue with the boot soles as they are a lwt version also used on the Phantom 6000. Not a boot I'd use on a lot of rock but might well be a nice advantage to drop another half pound off your feet on alpine ice and mixed routes where you'd be wearing 'pons anyway.

But the sole issue is important. The Ultra and the 6000 come with a new super low profile and I think sticky rubber sole. At least they seem as sticky as the La Sportiva sticky rubber available on some of the Trango series. Which is saying a lot. And it wears quickly. Has to be sticky the way I can walk boulder fields with them. The Vibram® Mulaz outsole, has an edging platform in the toe area and is the newest, super sticky, "Supertrek Rubber". The rear sole profile of these two boots is a vast improvement over the Spantik sole where you can collapse the foam mid sole when you flip up your crampon lever locks if you get carried away on how tight you want your crampons. "No can do" on the Ultra or 6000. Well done Scarpa! But the front of the sole is a super low profile toe area. I have yet to manage a perfect front crampon bail fit (and am using Petzl bails) to keep the crampon in one place. It isn't dangerous mind you just annoying. But don't let anyone tell you it is a great fit, it isn't without some real effort. My 'pons end up off center from French technique and a decent gap on the inside of the toe bale. If anyone has an answer to that let me know will you? And it is something the crampon manufactures will need to address sooner than later because the new low profile Scarpa sole profile is a really good improvement over all I think. The lighter weight sole profile boots (Ultra and 6000) are much easier to walk in than even the Guide. Of the 3 boots by far the Ultra fits my feet the best and is the easiest to lace for a good fit. Even though all three boots use a similar lace system and the Guide/Ultra system is exactly the same.

BTW, both the Ultra and 6000 boots I got this year came with Primaloft and a Outdry tag. There may be the reason they seem to dry faster and get less wet than my Guides but I am only guessing. Too limited on data to go any further. By the Spring of 2011 all three are suppose to be all lined with "Outdry" at Steck's suggestion, replacing the time proven Gortex liner.

Here is Scarpa's 12/20 response on a reader's 6000 query:

"Many thanks for your email. The Phantom 6000 has never been manufactured with a goretex lining so there will be no change in the way that this is produced over the foreseeable future. Check out the product review:
http://www.scarpa.co.uk/Products/Product.asp?ProductId=125

The waterproof membrane that it refers to is Outdry."

Not a huge amount of added info but I use the Mtn Hardware gloves that if believed are again Steck's designs and lined with Outdry all of last winter and was happy with them. Obviously someone knew a bit about climbing in the design process. I've not seen Goretex in a glove system do as well. OutDry seems to work exceptionally well. I have intentionally totally soaked Mtn Hardware gloves and only got the leather palms wet (which take forever to dry) and my hands have stayed bone dry inside the glove.

If the boots only do so well.

The gaiter? Between the La Sportiva Batura and the Phantom gaiter surprisingly the La Sportiva gaiter is better imo. It breathes better and is easier to fit with pants tucked inside. I found the Guides gaiter beginning to fully iced up internally and begining to give me cold wet feet as the c mlted lower in the boot in th cold windy conditions (-7C and lower) in the Canadian Icefields last week. Moisture from my perspiration wasn't getting out of the boot fast enough. In the same place and temps the Batura was solid, warm and dry for the most part. Easy fix is just wear the pants over the boot (Steck photo above) which keeps everything unfrozen and the boot breathing better. But I liked the Batura's option of doing either pant in or out. That option removes material from the bottom of the leg. Less chit to snag a 'pon on.

Iced up inner gaiter on a Guide that is now soaking my sox.

I have not seen a lot of feedback on these boots and used them just a bit myself so take my comments with a grain of salt here.

This boot has been out a full year on climber's feet. Scarpa's professionals I believe..at the very least some very good climbers, most all European and British bad asses. I try a lot of different boots and don't always climb in what I really like because of it. My feet are difficult to fit as well. But I actually buy my own boots so this isn't some hype I am spewing for a "gift". And in this case it took a buddy making a big effort to actually get me a pair from Europe because they were unavailable to me in any easy manner here.

I have one pair of Guides and one pair of Ultras so the comparison may simply be between different boots not between different models. The Ultra seems to have a bigger toe box and a narrower heel fit. The inner boot materials are different. A closer and more comfortable fit for me with the Ultra. Out of the box they walk well and climb well on steep water ice. More than enough ankle support for long bouts of alpine ice. I hardly noted the boot on my foot which is a good indicator to me just how much better they fit than the Guide and the difference the new mid sole makes walking.

I don't have a huge experience base in the guide or the Ultra...way too early for that but I do have enough boot experience to make these comments. I was having a huge case of buyer's remorse on the Ultra as even I can't justify $500 for a 7 oz difference over a pair of Guides that are easy to procure and try on locally. But it only took me a few minutes just trying the Ultra on indoors to know there was a difference enough for my foot and worth the effort Will went through to get them to me...Thanks again Will!

Walking and climbing in them just reinforced that first over all impression.

A caution. Few modern mtn boots can be laced as tightly and securely as the newest Phantom line....all three of them. It is easy to have operator error and over tighten the boots on the lower or upper and cut off circulation. For me to want to mention that fact in a boot review should give you an idea of how easy it is to do. This boot series is exceptional but like any gear you will need to learn what works and what doesn't for you. The Dyneema laces, btw, are nice. You won't be breaking them...ever.... I suspect.

"SCARPA announced they have teamed up with OutDry in order to make my all time favorite technical mountaineering boots even better. OutDry's waterproof breathable technology will appear in SCARPA's Phantom Collection for Spring 2011.





Both SCARPA and OutDry worked with renowned alpinist and speed-climber Ueli Steck on the design of the new Phantom Collection. Steck wanted a technical mountaineering boot with improved waterproofness that would cut down on the boot's "wet weight" while climbing in wet snow conditions.

OutDry is currently used in gloves from Mountain Hardwear and footwear from Lafuma among others. OutDry uses a three-dimensional laminating technology to adhere a windproof and waterproof breathable membrane to the inside of the outer most layer of shoes, boots and gloves. The permanent membrane bond creates a flawless fit with no folds, seams or the requirement for seam-sealing tape.

The waterproof breathable membrane will be laminated directly to the inner side of the K-tech boot upper on the SCARPA Phantom technical mountaineering boots. The use of OutDry in the boots also allows the addition of Primaloft for increased insulation qualities.




OutDry will be featured in all the new SCARPA Phantom styles including the Phantom 6000, Phantom Guide and the Phantom Ultra."

By the numbers:
THE ULTRA
Features:
Multilayer uppers:

S-Tech outer fabric

Waterproof membrane

3D Mesh insulation

Felt reinforcement

Wicking mesh lliner

Dyneema Laces with Fast Lock

Sole:

Lightweight TPU crampon inserts allowing full crampon use

PU shock absorbing inserts in the heel and forefoot for added comfort

Vibrams Mulaz Outsole

High density microporous midsole

Pro Fibre XT insole provides proven stiffness with enough flex to ensure approach comfort

Last:

AG

Weight:

1600g pair of 42

Sizes: 37-48




THE GUIDE
Features:
Multilayer uppers:

S-Tech outer fabric

Waterproof membrane

Eva + Aluminium support and reinforcement

Felt reinforcement

Primaloft

Dyneema Laces with Fast Lock

Sole:

Lightweight TPU Midsole with variable thickness for walking comfort

PU shock absorbing inserts in the heel and forefoot

Vibrams Total Traction sole

Pro Fibre insole provides proven flex characteristics

Last:

AG

Weight:

1800g pair of 42

Size: 37-48 including half sizes

Colour: Orange



Read more and make your own comparisons:

http://www.scarpa.co.uk/Products/Product.asp?ProductId=124

http://it.scarpa.net/prodotti/high-altitude/phantom-ultra/


http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/08/scarpa-teams-with-outdry-for-phantom-collection.html#ixzz10iCmi1aH

Will's photos: