Out of the box and onto the ice. The first Neoshell "Soft" garments from NWAlpine.
NWAlpinist Salopettes and a Big 4 climbing jacket.
Last fall we were having a discussion here about soft shells as I was trying to source garments for an up coming review. I had used the Westcomb Polartec Neoshell Apoc hard shell jacket and had been impressed with the performance in every condition. Other Neoshell "hard shell" garments followed. All equally impressive for performance as a hard shell that had a little stretch added. They did breath well. No doubt about that!
The first I heard of the newest Neoshell "soft" was from a reader here at CT. Not believing the comments actually I searched out the only two garments that were being produced at the time, one from Marmot and the other from Mammut.
I seldom really try to get garments for review and tests. But these two I REALLY did try to obtain but to no success. No pro deals, no freebees or demo loans were going to happen. And at $400 and $500 retail per garment I was stuck. No money for this one! I didn't have the money for that kind of test on something I really figured wasn't going to be all that impressive anyway. Love the blog and finding new groovy gear for my on use but throwing down close to a grand in short order wasn't going to happen.
Little did I know. (which seems to happen on a regular basis writing a climbing gear blog)
After giving up on the usual suspects for getting any deal on the newest Neoshell I went to the source. Polartec of course! RA you know who you are and I want to sincerely "THANK YOU!"
Best "new" product for 2011 imo.
In short order a couple of yards of the newest material, I like to call it Neoshell "Soft" was on the way to my "local tailor", Bill Amos the owner of NWAlpine. No clue what this stuff is really called.
My reasoning behind my manic behavior (this time) was I wanted a warmer pair of NWAlpinist Salopettes. Way more a "want" thing than a a "need" thing in this case. And to be honest I wasn't expecting much. I have lots of nice climbing pants. And they reall yare warm enough. What else was I going to get to play with? MWA's climbing specific jacket called the "Big 4" was sew up with Neoshell SOFT at the same time. In this case what I got was a total surprise!
Here is a short comment prior to a full review and comparison coming in April.
"Compared to the three versions of Arcteryx pant fabrics and the current NW Apline fabric the Neoshell SOFT is the warmest and most breathable but least stretchy. But it is just stretchy enough for pants, salopettes or a shell top. And as tough or tougher than most fabrics I have mentioned and not any heavier. May be not the best material for warmer weather use though from what I have witnessed so far. But then again smart garment design work would solve that problem as well I suspect.
My NWA salopettes are 1# 6oz in the NWAlpine fabric which Arcteryx also uses. It is a lwt to mid weight very stretchy fabric which isn't very durable in the long run. Same salopette is 1# 5oz in the Neoshell soft which is much warmer, water proof, very breathable and no question more durable.
And I find the Neo Soft more comfortable to wear.
I have both a NWA Big Four Jacket and the Alpinist Salopettes in the Neoshell SOFT and will be doing a full review and comparison on the blog in April after the next trip north.
Short version? The Neoshell SOFT garments are changing the way I dress for winter climbing and the physical comfort level while doing so. All while wearing less and being better protected from any weather.
And it was not easy to get me off that dime.
Big claims I know but true to date. I have used a few of the current state of the art soft shell tops. And 3 of the hard shell Neoshell garments and been impressed with all of them, Currently I think the Neoshell SOFT is THE fabric that will change how we dress for cold weather climbing.
More to come in April.
NWAlpinist Salopettes in Neoshell "Soft" and lovin them
Both versions of the NWAlpinist Salopettes on the walk in.
I started this review with three videos. I think it is important enough to get a look at the technology that even the Polartec videos are worth a second look.
Don Bowie's comments mirror my own experience with the Westcomb Apoc and NeoShell..
It has taken me a while to get enough experience with the NeoShell to think I could write a worth while review. I was leery because I had hunted down this jacket and begged for it from Polartec. Actually it was a tour through Wetscomb's gear at the OR show in Jan. that turned me on to NeoShell. Gabriel Cote had nothing but good things ot say about NeoShell and was excited to be using it in his cutting edge garments. I had used the original prototype Goretex garments back in 1976 from Sierra Designs and Lowe so I really did wonder just how much of a "missing link" the new NeoShell would be. 35 years of technology should be an improvement right?
I am pretty easy to please when it comes to shell garments these days. I have almost totally given up on Goretex because in typical use I wanted something more breathable than hard shells offered. Easy to please because I so seldom use a hard shell now..
When the wind is blowing and it is -20C and the sun is out a layer of down and a good wind shell pretty much does the trick. The shell is not required to do much. A lot of my skiing and climbing in the Alps were in those kind of conditions, cold and windy.
So I knew NeoShell was wind proof. Most shell materials are to one level or another. But how many stretch? NoeShell does. One of the things I really look for on any review is how much I notice what I am trying to review. Good boots? If I never notice the boot I am wearing they are likely GREAT boots! Ice tools or other climbing gear? If they do what is required and I never notice a lack of performance it is likely an exceptional bit of kit. If they allow me to do some thing new...then I know I have a winner.
A hard shell that stretches!
Mind you NeoShell doesn't stretch a lot but it does enough so that the garment never binds while wearing it.
But I also noticed I never had a moisture build up. Not when skiing/climbing and working hard. Even in conditions I thought I might or would normally. I also noticed NeoShell had to be the warmest single layer water proof shell I had ever used. But just fleeting thoughts as I wasn't making side by side comparisons to any GTX products. Just my observations at that moment.
I had to wait till I got home to the Cascades to check out the rest of the story. Rain...inches of rain have been typical this spring. So now I know the NeoShell is water proof and it still stretches. It obvious breaths well but just how well was the question. My Goretex stuff breathes too.
The most impressive test for me sounds like the most simple. Right at freezing all day between 4000' and 7000' and not a cloud in the sky. You could almost wear a sweater to ski in but you would be chilled on the ski lift or on the ridge tops if you weren't working hard. A sweater and a wind proof vest were almost ideal.
Same place typically a Gortex shell would have been too warm for me and worse yet sweaty and wet.
Just for fun I stripped to a tech short sleeved T shirt and added the Neo Shell over it. I figured we would soon see just how warm, wind proof and breathable NeoShell really was.
To my surprise I stayed warmer ( remember I originally thought NeoShell was exceptionally warm) all the way up and all the way down in the Apoca NeoShell than in my sweater and vest combo. And even more impressive I stayed dry..actually drier than the sweater/vest combo with no noticeable moisture build up on my back during the long runs down the hill.
Obviously no great insights here. But may be that is the point. NeoShell offers a water proof hard shell that breathes extremely well, and stretches. What is not to like? The Apoc has become my only shell jacket. It is that good. When I do notice something while using the Apoc it I'll get back to you.
I have not used all the current water proof and breathable materials available. But I have used a few of them. The new generation of stretchable, waterproof and breathable garments might well be the"missing link". The Apoc with NeoShell is the most versatile outdoor garment I currently own or have used. That surprised me.
My priority now is to see how a pair of NeoShell pants work out. Pants generally need to stretch a good bit more than a jacket. Maybe I won't notice it.
Eddie Bauer Frontpoint shell used where it belongs..going fast and light.
There were lots of questions as to what was the best shell from our field test. I wasn't looking for the best shell so much as I was looking for the best fabric to use for a climbing shell. Like me...some don't really care much about a rain shell.
Until this test I had felt that the new stretch materials were all going to be a big step up on performance from the typical hard shell layers most of us have used in the past. And at least for me, seldom satisfied with.
My first use of Neoshell in the Westcomb Apoc was a new experience. The Neoshell I have used over the last year is a slightly stretchy, water proof ( I'm now confident in that ) and breathable material. I used Neoshell as the "gold standard" on this test. Although in the field conditions we had I am not sure there was a noticeable difference between fabrics like Neoshell, Goretex Active Shell or the Mountain Hardware Dry Q. I'd like to pick a clear winner here but too many other influences on the fabrics themselves to simply do that.
In use my favorite garments always boil down to the features I like the best. Great design work can often overcome a 2nd rate material. Bad design work can and many times does completely over whelm what ever the magic fabric used might be.
For a "hard shell", which is what I would classify all of these jackets, I look at weight first.
Outdoor Reasearch's Axiom jacket cut from a stretch water proof breathable version of *Gore-Tex’s Active Shell* 13.7oz Large
Mountain Hardware's DRYSTEIN jacket cut from their stretch, water proof, breathable *Dry Q Elite* 18.7 oz XL
RAB's Neo Stretch Jacket cut from Polartec's stretch waterproof breathable *NeoShell* and 18.6oz XL
The Marmot Hyper is still one of my favorite shells listed here. I has the most stretch of all those listed and is the lightest. It is also the least water proof. So if rain gear is your priority then the Hyper simply isn't a good choice. That said I have used it in some pretty good rain fall and not been disappointed. But then admittedly I don't do a lot in the "rain".
But if stretch and light weight are important to you. Nothing in this group compares to the stretch of the Hyper. The Hyper is one of the first garments I would reach for a cold windy alpine climb for added protection. But it is no rain jacket by comparison. And because it is so light weight it isn't going to be very durable when it meets rock.
I trial run in the rain and I ride my road bike in the rain when my workouts require it. But climb all day in the rain? Not likely generally.
OK, past stretch and lwt weight what else is important to me? I want a hood that fits over my climbing helmet. A double slider on the main zipper seems like a worth while feature. Only the Mountain Hardware jacket from this test offered that. Disappointing at best.
Pockets? I'd like mess pockets internally to dry gear out in. None of these jackets offered that feature.
Over size external pockets that are made of nylon/Lycra mesh that work as vents are a better alternative than pit zips I think. They are certainly easier to use for venting and are still useful pockets.
These three jackets all use that pocket technology. Interesting to me that neither Neoshell garment we tested did. And imo they should have.
Outdoor Research's Axiom jacket cut from a stretch water proof breathable version of *Gore-Tex’s Active Shell* 13.7oz Large
Mountain Hardware's DRYSTEIN jacket cut from their stretch, water proof, breathable *Dry Q Elite* 18.7 oz XL
Technical climbing gear? Only one jacket of this bunch was intentionally cut and designed as a technical climbing jacket in my opinion. That is:
RAB's Neo Stretch Jacket cut from Polartec's stretch waterproof breathable *NeoShell* and 18.6oz XL
It has no side pockets, a brimmed hood and two chest high pockets instead of side "hand warmer" pockets.
But (and I had to physically recheck this) my impression was this:
Outdoor Research's Axiom jacket cut from a stretch water proof breathable version of *Gore-Tex’s Active Shell* quickly became my favorite "technical jacket" for climbing out of this group.
Let me explain that a bit s it makes little sense when you look at the over all jacket features but haven't had the garments on. The Outdoor Research Axiom jacket is cut from a *stretch* Gore-Tex’s Active Shell. It is light weight @ 13.7oz in a large size. OR's Large size is a "tight large" on me. So the garment feels trim while you are wearing it. No excess material. The side pocket design works as intended and vents well. They seem like vents not pockets. No extra bulk there. The hood is great with a helmet. The cuffs fit nicely with a tight, tapered Velcro closure. The Axiom simply feels like a shell jacket I would like to climb in. Not very scientific but there you are, my gut reaction to all of these jackets. And there no bad apples here! If I had to pick a favorite the Axiom would be it.
When I did climb in the Axiom I used it over my base layer. Typically that would have been a NWAlpine Hoody. But for this trip I intentionally used Cabela's Polartec E.C.W.C.S. zip front. Normally in the same situation I would be using a Arcteryx Atom Lt. over a base layer.
While my base layer was wet from the exercise the Axiom shell was always dry internally. Every so often I stopped to check and was actually amazed at the performance of the design (good vents) and the Gortex Active shell. But you can't even buy the AXIOM any where yet...so big help I am, right?
My point here? I really like what the Arcteryx Atom Lt is capable of for performance in the conditions (cold and dry) I typically climb in. I tend to judge other garments by that kind of performance. "Can they keep me both warm and dry?"
Every shell here listed above would need more than a simple hoody base layer as insulation to keep me warm in those conditions. The rare exception is an intentional "solo speed ascent".
The Neoshell garments got a slight nod for breathability and rain performance from the entire team. But again in my opinion neither of the designs we had available really take advantage of Neoshell for my own use.
I started thinking how cool a Neoshell Hyper or a Neoshell Axiom might be!
That is the hard part of taking a detailed look at gear. It is easy to imagine even better combos of design and fabrics once you have seen a few at the cutting edge on design and materials .
I can tell you what I think is the best glove, pant or ice tool depending on the conditions. And I'll argue the small points with you. Or the boot that fits MY foot the best. But I don't use a shell often. Past how well they breath and transport your moisture from working hard I don't demand much of them. Unless of course it rains. So, the "best" really is your decision, not mine.
Perfect conditions for a insulated soft shell. I was using a Gamma MX here.
It was difficult to even start this commentary when you look at the eleven (11) jackets I am writing up. My first thought was to do the group that I used the most and liked the best as climbing jackets. I had assumed they would all be in one category. Again a bit of an eye opener to me that wasn't the situation. I like jackets in both the insulated and uninsulated categories. And I interchange them freely in similar weather conditions. As I said previous these are the jackets I hand picked as the best for my own use. But even I am surprised just how good all of them are when you get down to the tiniest details.
Insulated:
Arcteryx Venta MX
$450.00 22oz / 628g in a XL
The Venta MX is an interesting jacket. Definitely more than the Gamma MX Series which I thought was a "heavy" soft shell to begin with. Not heavy in weight but "heavy" as in warmth and very capable in every condition. The Venta weighs in at 4+ oz less than the Gamma MX which was until very recently my Gold Standard in soft shells.
"This hooded soft-shell incorporates two weights of Windstopper for easy mobility and protection from the elements. Light, breathable Windstopper is used on the torso and underarms, while warmer, more durable, stretch Windstopper is used on the shoulders, hood, and back."
Arc'Teryx designates jackets designed for more severe weather with SV. The Venta MX is designed for more mixed conditions and uses the heavier Windstopper on the shoulders, hood, and back for weather protection, but a lighter weight Windstopper for the underarms and torso.
I don't think you can get a very good perspective on the SV/MX and LT designations from Arcteryx unless you use a number of their garments. Atom SV and Atom LT insulated shells as an example.
I have been told by an industry insider that *windstopper* is simply Goretex that is not seam taped. I don't know how accurate that is but the Venta acts like a Goretex hard shell when shedding rain. It is good at it. It is not the most breathable jacket in these tests. But it does breath well and is the only jacket here that offers pit zips. (which, personal preference, I really don't like) While I don't like a pit zip it does allow better ventilation if it is required to dump both heat and moisture. Arcteryx has the fit and the hoods simply DIALED on all their garments for my own use and body size. Every other manufacture plays a distant second fiddle here on both counts of pattern and hoods. How good are they? The clothing I climb the most in and have for a decade now are all Arcteryx! I have a few other pieces of clothing that I use on a regular basis but no single company dominated my climbing wardrobe as Arcteryx does. And I generally pay retail for it!
That said the Venta was not one of my least favorite garments of this comparison. It is very, very good but the Goretex fabrics used just aren't up to the capabilities of the Neoshell imo. At 22oz in a generous XL the Venta is the lwt (by 6oz or more) of the more burly shells with Neoshell. But then the Neoshell really is water proof and, imo, breaths better in use. I am cutting some fine hair here, and compared to NW Alpine, Marmot and Mammut Neoshells only the NW Alpine hits the same weight as the Venta. But the NWAlpine version is a very simple and basically "stripped" alpine climbing jacket. The Arcteryx Venta is a fully featured, state of the art jacket sewn with articulated patterning, and gusseted underarms and detailed by the best in the business. The Venta is hard NOT to like. It does stretch, no doubt there. The top pockets can also ventilate the jacket and are placed exactly where I want them. I do like the fabric style cuffs of the Gamma MX better than the Venta's
Velcro tab seal however. The "brimstone" color is really bright. I like it. The retail price is also $450. Right at the top of the food chain, where it should be.
Bottom line...I have to admit the Venta is a damn nice jacket even at $450. There are no flies on this garment.
Roger Strong is a industry sales and a Arcteryx and BD sponsored athlete. Their video covers the Venta MX features as well as anyone has for climbing climbing specific features.
Arcteryx Gamma MX
$345.00 24oz / 684g XL
I have experience with several generation of the Gamma MX now. And although I don't use one now as much as I have in the past I could easily go back and make it (old or new) my primary climbing jacket. The Gamma MX breaths well, is a very simple jacket to use. The cuffs, hood and sizing are seemingly designed specifically for climbing.
PolarTec Power Shield was the original material used. That technology has been replaced it with a new more flexible material. The added fleece face inside the jacket's arms make ti difficult to get on and off. The new Fortius 2.0
synthetic fabric insulates better for warmth, dries quickly. A DWR coating allows the
fabric to repel light moisture.
"Articulated arms and a trim fit keep this mid weight layer close to the body without restricting movement when you're alpine climbing. More versatile than your base layer and more breathable than your storm shell, this jacket will be the one you live in the most, even if there's a little light precip falling from the dark clouds above."
Again the cut and sewing on the Arcteryx stuff is really, really good. Better than anyone else in this comparison right now. But again it is not the jacket I now choose to climb in. However in the last decade the older (and maybe not as good) Gamma MX is the jacket I have climbed the most in. The newest version is even better than the last.
Gamma MX will stand up to some tough mixed conditions. I used one here as well.
NW Alpine Big Four
Jacket in Neoshell $375 22.6 oz / 640g Lg
The
water-resistant, breathable, and wind-resistant Polartec Neo Shell fabric
delivers the *protection* of a hard shell with the breathability, mobility and comfort of a
soft shell.
NWAlpine Big 4 Neoshell
I had climbed and skied in a couple of Polartec Neoshell garments last winter prior to this one off two piece set Bill at NWAlpine sewed up for me.
They garments used in the picture above while on Professors Gully was my first day in them. The pair are a set of NWAlpiniust salopettes and a Big Four zip front shell jacket. The Neoshell material used was supplied by Polartec, has a soft hand and a tiny bit of stretch. The inner face of the fabric is a soft, short and plush. I intentionally didn't seal the seams. I was able to change the layering system I climb in by using a this Neopshell material. That is a BIG change for me. More about all of that in part 4 which will be Neoshell specific.
The Big Four Jacket is a light and minimalistic soft shell truly designed 100 percent with climbing in mind. This one is made from a fairly heavy weight Neoshell, soft shell material. The material is very similar to what Marmot used for their Zion Jacket, which is reviewed below. The cut is long enough to efficiently stay under your harness and the sleeves are long enough to keep your wrists covered while your arms are above overhead. The jacket has one chest pocket and two internal stretch glove pockets. There are no side pockets. The forearms on this one are a little tight for me however. I use it but the pattern could be better imo. As I mentioned...the Big Four is a simple, climbing specific design, with a well thought out and useful hood that a helmet will easily go under. The second best hood design only behind Arcteryx imo. The pattern of the jacket could use a little work yet but the price of the regular Big Four is really difficult to compete with. Both are really good climbing jackets. I haven't asked Bill @ NWAlpine if he plans of building the Neoshell version in any kind of numbers yet. If he does this is a jacket you will really want to check out.
Marmot Zion
Neoshell $385 27.5oz / 778g Lg
"The
water-resistant, breathable, and wind-resistant Polartec Neo Shell fabric
delivers the *protection* of a hard shell with the breathability and mobility of a
soft shell."
Marmot doesn't say it but this one should be water proof with taped seams. My call would be this is a truly "fully featured" jacket. It is not quit as technical as the Arcteryx Gamma or Venta MX jackets but it is a darn nice jacket. I really like how it fits and feels in my size large. I don't remember if it was the Mammut or the Marmot Neoshell "soft shell's" that I first tried on locally. May be it was the Marmot. What I do remember thinking was, "this is the jacket that could change what I climb in for clothing." And it was the jacket I REALLY WANTED wanted to use on a big alpine face. If was the first jacket since the Gamma MX I'd used previously that I though might really get me back into a soft shell. Mind you I wanted to be in a soft shell if they were light enough in weight and could keep me dry all the while breathing extremely well. My previous experience with the Neoshell "hard shells" had convinced me Neoshell might actually make all that possible.
Until actually seeing the Zion I had no clue the Neoshell process could be applied to any material. Once that fact became obvious...all sorts of ideas started popping into my head for a new set of climbing clothing. The Big Four jacket and NWAlpine Alpinist Salopettes were the first venture on the quest (this time) for a better set of alpine clothing.
But with the Zion, one thing KILLS this jacket for me. Everything from fit, cuffs pattern and feel are dang near perfect. Easy even to find a color I like. But the hood is terrible. It simply does not fit a climbing helmet. Worse yet is the fit is very close on a helmet as in "almost fits" so you might easily be convinced in a store. But no way to zip up the jacket while using one. Huge BUMMER here! Glad I have the NW Alpine version to show me just how good the Neoshell would be in a climbing specific shell. If you don't wear a helmet this would be a great jacket for almost any outdoor environment.
*Rab Vapour-rise
Lite Alpine $175.00 * (*soft shell?) 11.7oz / 332g Lg
This one I am still not quit convinced is actually a soft shell. But that is how RAB has labeled it so I have included it here. If you haven't noticed it is also the lightest weight in ounces jacket I tested. I have no doubt it can replace a number of the jackets listed but it won't be as durable. It might well be warmer however and more breathable than many of them. I'd call BS on the "soft shell claim because the Vapour-rise Lite is so similar to the Atom LT (another very good climbing jacket) but the shell stretches....where only the side panels offer any stretch on the Atom Lt.
RAB sez: "For Spring 2012 we have taken everything we have learnt from the Vapour-rise clothing system and put it on a diet! The result is an incredibly breathable and weather resistant 'soft-shell' system that really works. The Pertex Equilibrium outer fabric, when combined with the light tricot lining,gives you a jacket that is wind and water resistant and that offers fantastic moisture management that dries quickly and maintains a comfortable working environment.
Features that include rucksack and harness friendly pockets, a useful under-helmet hood that is unobtrusive when not in use, a 2-way front zip, adjustable cuffs and an adjustable drawcord hem make the Vapour-rise Lite Alpine an ideal all round mountain jacket."
Again this is another jacket with huge potential but not at the same party as some of the better climbing jackets listed here. For me this one makes a good summer alpine rock jacket or even a super lwt run up Rainer or Mt Blanc. For quick super lwt trips to the alpine, sans helmetrequirements this one really rocks. But as a climbing jacket it is a VERY athletic cut in a group of very athletic cut jackets. In other words it is tight and not made to take much under it. I use it alone to run in. But for once the forearms are not too tight :) The hood on the other hand is...not one that RAB makes many mistakes on. But this hood is too small for a helmet. So my verdict on this one is, "A AWESOME 3 season jacket for lwt trips where you don't need a helmet. Or don't need a hood" I included it because I think it really does have some serious potential once you figure out a place for it in your own adventures. I have but it is not a go to ice climbing piece for me....yet, Too bad because I think the Vapour-rise garments (and this one in particular) have the same or more potential as the Arcteryx Atom Lt.
Some might get a laugh on me for including this one. But I paid for it and I like it a lot. On sale it cost something like $65 for it plus WA. sales tax. You could buy a lot of them for what a Venta would cost you @ retail. I would imagine the Neo will last as long as the Venta will as well. The REI warranty is certainly easier to use.
Although there is no hood, which is better in my opinion than a hood you can't use, the jacket wasn't designed as a climbing jacket. It was designed to be a price point soft shell for "about town wear". I have used it for both and really like it in both arenas. The first time I wore mine was on a date with my wife. I thought I looked sharp...she allowed me that fantasy. For climbing it is cut well. The sleeves close with Velcro and are long enough and the body of the jacket is long enough to go into your harness and stay there. Neither the sleeves or body are overly long or get in the way while in the car or running around town. Seems almost perfect to me. The fabric looks ot be the same as the material Marmot used in the Zion Neoshell. Just no Neoshell, so it is cheap. The DWR repels water like a duck's back and the thing breathes VERY well considering the insulation value if the lwt fleece backing on the fabric.
I like this jacket a lot. And I like it for a lot of uses. Spring skiing, a decent day ice climbing or off to town for a latte and dinner. Multifunction and a very good price. If you don't mind black or brown and have yet to own a soft shell you can use long into 3 seasons. this is a good place to start and see what you think of the idea.
The winner here by overall weight, stretch, and weather protection is the Arcteryx Venta MX. Add the fact that the sizing, cut, pattern and details are typically impeccably Arcteryx and state of the art and it is a smack down even at $450.
It is kinda funny for me to sit down and write these reviews never knowing what the end result of all the testing will be. I take notes while or immediately after using them. But past that I don't keep track until I finally sit down to put it all together at my desk. In some cases it might be months later. In this case it has been on and off use for well over a year. I do know that if I have a week off to climb and am out every day I gravitate to the gear I like the best. That is most often defined by the gear I actually notice the least while I am actually climbing. If I am wet or cold or over heated I notice. The best gear you never notice, it just works. Better not to notice.
The Non insulated soft shells:
NW Alpine Big Four Jacket $235 17.5oz / 524 Lg
"Made from premium Schoeller Dryskin the Big Four Jacket offers excellent breathability and 3XDry Technology ensures superior water resistance."
This is a soft shell you will not notice. Which is a good thing. I also really like the price point. Excellent hood, good length on the arms to keep the glove jacket gap closed. Good length on the body to keep the jacket tucked into your harness. The material is seemingly light weight so it doesn't get all bunched up under your harness. It breaths well when you are really active and is wind proof enough that you aren't scrambling to get a belay jacket on at every belay to conserve body heat. It is a really simple climbing specific jacket. NW Alpine is a new start up company that just keeps getting better with every production run and every product they offer. Only down side on this one for me is the forearms are a little tight on their pattern. But there is plenty of stretch in the current Schoeler Dryskin fabric they are using so the pattern wasn't a deal breaker for me. One of the three or four "best" for climbing out of the 11 jackets I have included. High praise when you look at the other price points. One external chest pocket and two internal stretch glove pockets, one good sized hood with easy adjustment. Two sleeves attached and Velcro adjustable cuffs. All the stuff you need and none of the fluff you don't. Nice bit of actual climbing kit. There is so little of it available these days!
Rab Scimitar $190 22.7oz / 644g XL
"The Scimitar is constructed using 2 of our own Matrix DWS fabrics, these are non-membrane, stretch, double weave, soft shell fabrics which are highly wind and water resistant and come with a factory DWR treatment. The main body is Matrix DWS in 182g/m weight and the darker panels are a tougher fabric in 275g/m weight for abrasion resistance"
This is another soft shell specifically designed for climbing. Good hood design, certainly one of the best I have seen. But it doesn't completely cover the vents on my Petzl Meteor helmet. So while good it is not what I would consider a great hood. But again it is "good".
"The Scimitar is a medium cut and has adjustable cuffs, hem and hood, plus hand-warmer and chest pocket plus there's a storm flap behind the 2-way front zip."
I might speculate on that "medium cut" comment. Mine is a US XL It is cut slim by any standard. Tighter than the Arcteryx cut for sure. I cna use a large Arcteryx for example. I like the Scimitar and the cut except for one issue....again tight forearms. So tight in fact that with nothing but a short sleeved T shirt on underneath this one I can easily tighten the seams just below the elbow with just a couple of unweighted wrist curls at my desk. On a climb it was annoying and worse yet tiring. On the upper arm even my puny re-attached biceps almost strain the seams there with just the same T shirt. Add a mid layer and I'd be, well, I'd be really unhappy. I like to climb in as little clothing as possible but the Scimitar limits me to a R1 hoody at most under it. A Sherpa Merino wool hoody is even better. That is good part of the year but is limiting as a winter ice climbing jacket. You had better be able to run fast and jump high to (keep warm) and use this jacket a lot. The up side? The sleeves are plenty long and make the glove- jacket connection easily sealed and secure. That is done well. The heavier weigh fabric is on the outside of the forearms and upper shoulder and on the point of both hips. This is a jacket to do some hard mixed in and not shy away from the off width groveling. The jacket can take it and come out shinning still in one piece. Plenty of stretch in the material as well so you likely not know you have it on while you sweat bullets on a crux. I found the breathability really good in this one and the water resistant decent. Water resistant enough to be a really good water fall cragging jacket even when it is wet. It is not a rain jacket but it BREATHS really well and is good wind protection. I have no doubt it was designed as a climbing specific jacket. I really liked the fact that the extra material at the point of the hip will save this jacket some holes when you have a full rack of screws on your harness. The hood is decent but could be a little better for coverage. The arms are pretty tight...almost unusable for me. But the stretchy material allows a little adaptation. If the sleeves were a tiny bit bigger I would use this one a lot more. If it fits you well I suspect you'd love it.
Patagonia Knifeblade on Carlsberg
And yes it is true..I have four orange soft shells each from different manufactures. So keeping pictures sorted correctly is tough!
Patagonia Knifeblade $350. 20.6oz / 586g XL
"Polartec Power Shield Pro fabric with a tricot backing, combines lightweight weather resistance and incredible breathability."
This is a third jacket here designed specifically for climbing. Mine is an XL. It showed up here when I was 50# heavier and needed a XL! Thankfully not an XL today if the sizing/pattern is reasonable. At least I can generally wear and climb in anything now that is a US Large with no complaints. (I know that might be hard to believe as I write all this negative stuff about some really nice soft shell jackets!) Reading another online review last year I caught their reviewer raving about this jacket. At the time I was NOT impressed by the jacket or the review.
And I should have been. Jacket is climbing specific. It is a pull over which I really like because of the simplicity. But even back then the thing fit me like a sack. Patagonia is known (at least known at Cold Thistle and my closet as a terrible fit) as having some really funky patterns and sizing. The Knifeblade has really long arms and a decently long body. I think back now and realise that it was the first jacket I had seen (or would review) that had I'll call a "technical climbing specific" fit. The Gamma MX had been my go to soft shell and while a great jacket for climbing it didn't have extra long arms or a extra long body as some of the newer jackets do now.
Some how it seemed to work fine climbing though. I never knew I was missing anything...not sure I am convinced now!
So when the written review I saw didn't mention either..long sleeves or long body I was thinking the author had simply been bought off by the "free" gear. Call me cynical as I am still not totally clear on that. But the Knifeblade jacket really is impressive in use. See it in the store hanging on the rack or try one on and you may not think so. I certainly didn't.
But given a chance in use, the Knifeblade really did shine though. Remember I don't want to notice my gear? I never noticed the Knifeblade from day one. Day one for me and a Knifeblade was a nasty bit of water fall ice that was falling down around me. 1st pitch was sketchy but seemed doable. 2nd pitch plan was make it to a fixed pin at 60' and hopefully at least one decent screw on vertical ice. I clipped the pin (actual BD knifeblade of course) while water was running down every where around me. I wasn't sure my partner would have ice to climb on in a few minutes. I jerked on the sling and out came the pin. Quick! Bail time before I fall off! Down climbing that disintegrating mess was the best lead I had last year. Best lead in some time. I had most of these soft shells I am writing about with me for that trip. I ended up climbing a lot in the Knifeblade after failing on that climb. It doesn't look like much. Fit is dismal but the basics are all there and the fabric does everything they claim. I like this light weight a lot. It became my favorite cragging jacket of the bunch.
Outdoor Research Axiom $375 13.6oz / 386g Lg (soft shell?)*
"Outdoor Research jacket is made with premium 3-layer 20D Gore-Tex® ACTIVE SHELL fabric to block out rain, snow and sleet while letting body vapor escape to keep you dry inside."
Ya, OK, this one I *think* Outdoor Research actually lists as a hard shell. But trust me on this..if the Patagonia Knifeblade is a soft shell the Axiom is as well. The Knifeblade uses Polartec Power Shield Pro. The Axiom uses a even lighter weight 3-layer 20D Gore-Tex® ACTIVE SHELL fabric. In hand and actual feel there is a noticeable but very little difference. In use the materials seem to me every bit as capable as its competitor. Although the Polartec material offers more stretch. The Axiom has plenty to spare I think. Worth noting here I am making a side by side comparison of the Knifeblade that I really like and the Axion. I think the pattern, fit and detailing is better on the Axiom. Mine is a size Large. And while the Knifeblade XL fits me like a sack, I can't use a Large Knifeblade from Patagonia. The Large is just too tight over all. remember I said Patagonia sizing is "off" for me. Good example here on the Knifeblade. If Goldilocks's ice climbed she would like the Axiom, because it is "just right". I like it too.
The Axiom's sleeves have the extra length required. I know long wonder if my arms are deformed with the Axiom as I can actually bend my elbows with a layer or two on under this shell. (soft or hard?!) And a trick Velcro closure on the cuff. It really is "trick" and works better than most. Simple but great design effort. I like that the side pockets vent into the body of the jacket for ventilation if required. I like the chest pocket. And the length is long enough, but not too long to bunch up or get in the way without a harness. As a shell this was one of the favorites last year comparing it to all the shells we (Doug Lee and I) tested. It likely would have been a favorite for ice cragging as well...if I had bothered to take it. It was a "hard shell" after all! So it stayed home on several trips this spring. I have no clue what the durability of the Goretex ACTIVE SHELL fabric is but as a cross over from soft shell to a full hard shell level of weather protection this is a stellar jacket. It has the only hood that rivals (and may be betters) the Arcteryx hood pattern domination. For anyone that wants to really cut weight (13.6 oz in a Large) and needs full weather protection this is the only jacket in the review that will do everything I asked of a good climbing jacket and has sizing through out the pattern that is "normal". I'd give my eye teeth to have this one in a stretchy and insulated Neoshell for the added warmth. Lacking that option I can certainly live with this one as my only climbing "soft shell".
I didn't put these jackets (all eleven of them) in any specific order when I started writing them up. I just searched out Internet links as I wrote and dropped them in cut and paste. This is the 10th jacket I have reviewed in detail now on this set of blogs. And I find it really interesting that of the Axiom is the ONLY jacket that fulfilled all my requirements for a ice climbing jacket. Sure there are things I'd like to see changed (or better yet a 2nd jacket in this style offered with insulated Neoshell, like the Zion) but the pattern, detailing and hood are so important. Even the very best materials go to waste if you simply can't use the jacket off the rack to climb in because of bad design or pattern work. When it all comes together perfectly, fabric and design) like it does on the Axiom, it becomes an easy choice. The Axion ties with the Venta MX for #1 for the best of the bunch here.
Mammut Gipfelgrat Neoshell $450 (*discontinued) 29.5 oz / 822g Xl
"Lightweight layer of Polartec NeoShell; waterproof, windproof, and breathable"
Likely it was the Marmot Zion that made me think I could leap tall buildings with a single bound and defeat evil villains (big North Faces?) with only a casual glance. Only the hood being unable to cover my super hero mask put an end to that thought with the Zion . A few months later my one- off NWAlpine Neoshell actually had me thinking similar thoughts. I got a Doctor's note to get me out of that one. But may be it was the bumble bee look that robbed my super hero powers with the NWApine jacket and not just being scared!? Because the NWAlpine is an almost perfect jacket. Almost.
The Mammut Gipfelgrat (thanks forthe spell check!) Neoshell how ever brought all the super hero crap back to the surface of my warped little brain. I forget the cold, the aching feet and the lack of water and sleep. Put me i my favorite Neoshell salopettes and a "perfect" Neoshell jacket and there is not reason for me NOT to climb every and any objective...anywhere!
The Gipfelgrat is obviously Neoshell. But it is not like the Neoshell in the Westcomb Apoc jacket. The Gipfelgrat uses a heavier and more elastic material. Call it tougher for sure when it comes to abrasion. But the jacket is also heavier. Twice and more the weight of the Axiom and no question if you are on sharp Chamonix or Alaskan range granite the Gipfeigrat will last longer.
It is water proof they say. And I know it is very wind resistant. Sleeves and cuffs are good to go. Hood again is very good maybe not as good as the Axion and a step down from what Arcteryx does. But not a big step. It is a good hood. There are under arm zips.
Let me stop there for a moment. Do the designers ever really look hard at the fabrics they use? Here is a jacket in a mid weight Neoshell that really doesn't need pit zips imo. And they could drop some weight. Fully featured with pit zips sure. But no outside chest pocket. A little more effort on the design side would have had stolen the show here.
Back on track. No chest pocket.on the outside but there is one on the inside. All the zips are water proof. It is a jacket that could take a serious alpine climber could take some serious abuse in.
It is heavy at 29.5 oz. But using the right clothing system might allow you to drop a mid layer here and no other shell required. But the Gipfelgrat is by far the heaviest jacket here. Even a couple of ounces heavier than the actually insulated Marmot Zion in Neoshell. The Zion and Gipfelgrat better compared as "full featured" jackets than to the NWAlpine Neoshell version which is 7oz lighter in Neoshell.
My take, and I'll get into the idea deeper in the last part of this comparison coming up next, is Neoshell has yet to be fully utilised.
Easy for me to say as the Gipfelgrat has been discontinued in a Neoshell version and is now using one of the new Shoeller fabrics I believe. Don't quote me on all of that just what I was told by a source at Mammut and have yet to verify.
Bottom line on the Gipfelgrat? I spent a year trying to get one. It may not say much to you but I don't spend that kind of time on a garment unless I think it has real value. Perfect? Nope. It is too heavy and way over built imo. But the details and pattern are right. Another one that is very close but just missed the boat by a few feet. That said it is the one jacket here I would take on a multi-day alpine wall where multiple requirement are required of a good jacket. The Axion ties with the Venta MX for #1 for the best of the bunch here.The Gipfelgrat is #3 in my comparisons.
But I could make a case for any one of these 3 jackets as being my 1st choice of the eleven depending on your own priorities. They aren't the only jackets out there of this quality or with well thought features. Look around, ask around. Buy what best fits you and your needs and of course fits you wallet.
I would have thought that of my 11 choices in soft shell jackets either insulated or uninsulated shells would have been my favorite. One or the other.
Turns out I am a big fan of the newest technology like the Neoshell fabric used in the Marmot Zion. The inexpensive REI "town and country" hoodless version I reviewed feels the same to me but offers significantly less weather protection. But the REI version still makes a darn good ice cragging jacket if you don't require a hood. And while cragging I seldom require a hood. My guess would be they are the same fabric without the Neoshell laminate in the REI version and a very good DWR that does an incredible job on the their fabric.
Given the right material, that is wind proof, 100% water proof and does in fact breath well enough for your own use you could cut your layering system by weight and bulk.
Neoshell I think offers a chance to do all that if a company like Arcteryx, OR or even Mammut would put some time and effort into a single package. Single package as in "action suit" package.
Neoshell has me thinking how I could revise my layering system for the better. But at the moment none of the options available jump out at me as a replacement. Maybe a Neoshell Atom LT?
Mark Twight's "action suit" is a reality in every serious alpine climbers kit. The newest fabrics like Polartec's Neoshell or any of the better Goretex or Shoeller newest offers are now giving us a chance to design the ultimate "action suit". Only Mountain Hardware seems to be up to the task at the moment with the new Ueli Steck line of gear. And they haven't covered everything or made any real innovations imo. They have just done things better...not really different. It is time for different!
I have one of the few pair of Neoshell Salopettes that I know of, and simply love them in the alpine. Mating the right jacket with those pants is a priority for me. So I am still looking for the ultimate shell.
There will be a time...when the action suit starts with your crampons....then your boots and then your "shell", boot sole to a head covering system. "THE" suit will include an integral glove system, gaiters and different options for insulation depending on the temperatures. Water resistance and breathability will be a given. I've been climbing more decades than I like to admit to. But a systems approach to our clothing is not all that far away in the grand scheme of things.
Viva technology!
This is on my blog list but worth checking out as well if you haven't already:
Here is a chance for you the readers at Cold Thistle to sound off. Write 10 words, 10 paragraphs or 10 pages on why you think your shell (soft, hard or hard shell pile) is the best thing since sliced bread. Climbing related comments are the ones most appreciated here ;-) Send it to my email address and add a name if you want credit. Photos are cool as well. And I'll then add them to the blog in a "people's choice commentary" coming up soon.
My turn to learn from you! And while we are at it, you can educate the masses! Or just remind me how bad that "last" review was. As always I'll be adding a few comments on the newest shells that are showing up here @ Cold Thistle right now. Below, Westcomb pulled all the stops for this lwt Neoshell. Seems like a perfect piece for climbing to me. Details below, but more later once I get a chance to actually climb in it. Bozeman next stop!
The Westcomb's, Shift @ 12oz (actual weight) in my perfectly sized (for me), US men's large. Hood fits a Petzl Meteor helmet easily. Arms and shoulders fit me extremely well with room to spare. Jacket is made of stretchable 360 NP Polartec Neoshell. I would call this one a very light weight, stretchable (some stretch to be sure), hard shell. $400 retail.
A couple of online reviews from users and the industry here:
360 NP Polartec® NeoShell® - Durable water- and windproof nylon weave, breathability and stretch performance.
20 SPI - 20 stitches per inch exceed industry standards by at least 2x.
This higher SPI allows for a lighter, yet stronger fabric seam giving a lifetime
of wear and tear while reducing weight as additional top-stitching isn’t
needed.
Micro Seam Taping - Creates the thinnest waterproof boundary while
creating a more pliable seam without the added weight.
Laminated Zippers, Waist and Wrist Hems - Super durable fabric adhesive
affixes these critical areas, creating waterproof, stitchless, lightweight
seams with weld-like durability and ultra clean aesthetics.
YKK PU Zippers - Provide smooth operation with watertight performance.
Reduces weight by eliminating the need for storm flaps.
Articulated Sleeves - Integrated strategic pocket areas allowing for
unrestricted movement.
Westcomb’s lightest Polartec® NeoShell® Jacket. The Shift Hoody offers no-
compromise wind and water protection, in a featherweight shell. Designed so the
gram counting outdoor adventurer can maximize experience with minimal
weight.
_Attached Helmet Compatible Hood - The 2-point adjustable hood is roomy
enough to wear over a helmet, yet cinches comfortably down when worn without
one. Bungee cord on each side of the hood and a one in back simply adjust with
one-handed ease, keeping your other hand ready for the unexpected.
_Adjustable Waist System - Easy to adjust with one hand; just pull the
cinch-cord at the waist to lock out the elements. Press the one-handed release
on the outside hem to loosen the jacket back up.
_High Collar with Velour-lined Chin-Guard - Provides comfort and
protection from the elements for your neck and face.
_1 Napoleon Pocket - Provides easy access to crucial gear. Stash your
essential items in the conveniently located chest pocket.
_Velcro Cuff
Closure - Keeps snow, wind, and rain from creeping in right at the
wrists.
_340 NRS Polartec® NeoShell® - Fly weight nylon ripstop with breathability
and waterproof performance. NeoShell® technology works continuously without
sacrificing hand, stretch and durability.
_360 NP Polartec® NeoShell® - Durable water- and windproof nylon weave
with revolutionary breathability and stretch performance.
_20 SPI - 20 stitches per inch exceed industry standards by at least 2x.
This higher SPI allows for a lighter, yet stronger fabric seam giving a lifetime
of wear and tear while reducing weight as additional top-stitching isn’t
needed.
_Micro Seam Taping - Creates the thinnest waterproof boundary while
creating a more pliable seam without the added weight.
_Laminated Zippers, Waist and Wrist Hems - Super durable fabric adhesive
affixes these critical areas, creating waterproof,
stitchless, lightweight
seams with weld-like durability and ultra clean aesthetics.
_YKK PU Zippers - Provide smooth operation with watertight performance.
Reduces weight by eliminating the need for storm flaps.
_Articulated Sleeves - Integrated strategic pocket areas allowing for
unrestricted movement in any position.
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