tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post2840710058560989134..comments2024-03-16T10:11:19.302-07:00Comments on Cold Thistle: How do I choose Ice Tools?Danehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-60911619770033131702016-09-21T09:57:10.960-07:002016-09-21T09:57:10.960-07:00Definitely a contender for "worst dressed on ...Definitely a contender for "worst dressed on the mountain" in that last pic there ;)<br /><br />Good read though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-76240249965344664422014-01-11T08:56:23.479-08:002014-01-11T08:56:23.479-08:00Dane,
can you already comment on the X-Dream (and ...Dane,<br />can you already comment on the X-Dream (and maybe the X-all) , particular in comparison to the Nomic? I need to get some new tools and would welcome your opinion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-45035583549486710472013-12-23T11:48:56.499-08:002013-12-23T11:48:56.499-08:00You guys are brutal! I dont't intentionally t...You guys are brutal! I dont't intentionally torque picks to failure (one might fall off) and I don't smack rocks climbing ice if I can help it! I'd then want to change the pick out or take a file to it. I don't climb in ice parks or on a TR. Both great places to test such things how ever. I'll have to leave the testing to failure up to someone else with a deeper pocket book. I just climb on this stuff not destructive test it to failure! I learned a long time ago that I can break or bend almost anything if I put my mind to it. Not an attribute I encourage for ice and mixed.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-34378459587789268612013-12-23T10:39:28.046-08:002013-12-23T10:39:28.046-08:00I demoed some X-drys a few winters ago and thought...I demoed some X-drys a few winters ago and thought they were equal to the nomic for steep featured stuff. But at that time they were barely available and cost more than Nomics. Now at MEC in Canada the X-All Mountains are $75 less PER TOOL compared to Nomics. But if that price differential is offset by needing to replace picks more often ... well ...<br />Something to be said for climbing with tools where the picks interchange with your partners' gear - Petzl gets the nod here.<br />So Dane I hope you can smash and torque the crap out of those Cassin picks, see how they stand up. I am interested if and how much they take a permanent bend if torqued hard, and also how badly they mushroom if contacting rock under disguise. <br />infernohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688189985614095317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-34490228590490334912013-12-22T21:50:33.079-08:002013-12-22T21:50:33.079-08:00Ergo? When I got sick, not knowing the eventual ou...Ergo? When I got sick, not knowing the eventual out come, I sold off all my tools but a last pair of Nomics. Newest stuff (Ergo included) was simply easier to sell. And I had a lot of it. Only tool I'll eventually buy again that I know of at the moment, will be a pair of Ergos.<br /><br />Forged or plate steel? Yes, very specific metallurgical advantages to true hammer forged to shape pick/parts. They can be much stronger and more durable than a plate cut steel part/pick. Hot, hammer forged to shape isn't anywhere close to rolled plate steel for cost, durability or wear if it is heat treated correctly. Sure, you can call rolled plate, "forged" steel. But to anyone knowledgeable about metal won't be fooled that it is a "forged steel part". The gun industry likes to play word games as well about "forged" steel which doesn't mean you get a forged part. Hammer forging to shape hot metal aligns the grain structure. Plate steel, even the best plate steels, heat treated to spec (which I have done) are not forged steel parts. <br /><br />You are using forging in a very generic sense. I am using the term "forging" as a very specific technique. Difference in a Randal and a Cold Steel knife. Randal is forged to shape with a hammer and final shaped by grinding. Cold Steel is generally cut out to shape then then ground to a finished product. Difference in strength and edge hold is dramatic. Colt uses a forged steel frame. LB uses forged bar stock to machine cut frames from. The results are obvious. <br /><br />Good look at forging here:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging<br /><br />Doesn't take much knowledge once you are actually aware of the advantages to true hot forging of parts or knives to start questioning how crampons and picks are made. The reason everyone doesn't forge? Cost...simple as that, cost.<br /><br />"As the metal is shaped during the forging process, its internal grain deforms to follow the general shape of the part. As a result, the grain is continuous throughout the part, giving rise to a piece with improved strength characteristics.[4]"<br /><br />Alloys used? Easier way to tell and it doesn;t take much of a formal education to make a good decision. Ask yourself and your partners. "do they break in use?" The best these days simply don't break picks. Everyone playing the game should already know the asnwer. At that point pick the color you like if reliability isn't a priority for you.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-81026499091426076122013-12-22T19:55:31.082-08:002013-12-22T19:55:31.082-08:00Do you know of any metallurgical reason that the f...Do you know of any metallurgical reason that the forged picks seem to be performing better than those cut from forged bars? It's my understanding that for flat parts there is no difference in strength given the same alloy and heat treatment schedule. Perhaps the companies forging their picks are able to use a better alloy because they waste less material? <br /><br />I know for sure that most high performance specialty steels don't take well to secondary forging. They exhibit their best grain structure from a single sintering and compaction process in a vacuum environment. Subsequent heatings to forging temps compromise the particle metallurgy structure. <br /><br />I really wish companies would just advertise their alloys and let us make informed decisions. This transparency has only helped the knife industry with better products and smarter consumers. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12860306039407991941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-37802056665513652062013-12-22T19:46:51.435-08:002013-12-22T19:46:51.435-08:00I use & like the x-mountain a lot. Dane, befor...I use & like the x-mountain a lot. Dane, before you start demoing those tools, consider scraping off some of the textured surface from the side of the picks. Those picks stick really nicely in all sorts of ice, but they stick a little too well sometimes. Only fault I've found (others say the same), but its an easy fix. Any final thoughts on the ergo? Or did the nomic just win out as an all arounder?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-1792048115288441592013-12-22T19:32:59.898-08:002013-12-22T19:32:59.898-08:00So, I own Cobras. They are a fine tool.
That bei...So, I own Cobras. They are a fine tool. <br /><br />That being said, I spent my weekend in Bozeman sharing both the X-Dream's and the Nomics. I've used Nomics before. I had a spectacular day with them. I'd say the X-Dreams are pretty nice tools that are very similar to the Nomics. However, the X-Dreams were a little lighter and I never noticed a difference in the balance. <br /><br />Ultimately, I would get either tool for hard vertical ice or mixed (I'm not a mixed climber.... yet...) I have tried mixed climbing but only with the Cobras and Nomics. <br /><br />Anyhow... my 2 cents.Cale Hoopeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165675783952647546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-9672102632437449802013-12-22T18:20:21.363-08:002013-12-22T18:20:21.363-08:00Yep, thanks for the pointer >-)
"X-PICKS ...Yep, thanks for the pointer >-)<br /><br />"X-PICKS <br />• B-rated picks<br />Hot-forged picks optimized for the X-Tools. The X-All Mountain Pick is compatible with both the X-Dry and X-Ice shafts along with the X-All Mountain Tool and is the best choice for all-around technical climbing. The X-Dry and X-Ice picks are interchangeable on the X-Dry and X-Ice shafts, but are not optimized for the X-Alp. The X-Alp pick is not compatible with the X-All Mountain, X-Dry or X-Ice.<br />SPECS<br /> 3050S: X-All Mountain Pick - $35.00 USD<br /> 3005: X-Dry Pick - $35.00 USD<br /> 3006: X-Ice Pick - $35.00 USD<br /> 3007: X-Alp Pick - $35.00 USD<br /> 3053: X-Dream Mixed Pick - $35.00 3052: X-Dream Comp Pick - $35.00 <br /> 3053: X-Dream Ice Pick - $45.00" <br />Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-20280219430268633952013-12-22T18:03:26.241-08:002013-12-22T18:03:26.241-08:00According to the Camp USA website, looking at the ...According to the Camp USA website, looking at the specs for the replacement pick, they are hot forged. Seem like good tools, wonder how they stack up agains Quarks!? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-80342141795487583722013-12-22T16:12:47.746-08:002013-12-22T16:12:47.746-08:00I am not sure if the Camp picks are cut or forged....I am not sure if the Camp picks are cut or forged. Something I need to check on. My guess is cut. They usually brag about the extra effort andcost of forged. I couldn't find it on line either. But I am not 100% one way or the other. Usually I can tell by looking. In person it is a tough call. I'm just not sure on the Camps. But I will find out. The Camp tools are my "demos" for this season. No opinion on them yet. That should change in the next few weeks. But I thought it worth a look because of the rave reviews they seem to get. I should have the new BD Fuel out at some point as well.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-17357936231291007992013-12-22T11:18:02.766-08:002013-12-22T11:18:02.766-08:00Do the CAMP (Cassin) X-tools have forged picks? Th...Do the CAMP (Cassin) X-tools have forged picks? They don't look like it in online photos, and the "specs" I find don't specify.infernohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688189985614095317noreply@blogger.com