tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post6755311255964357053..comments2024-03-16T10:11:19.302-07:00Comments on Cold Thistle: Crampon durability? Stainless or Chromoly?Danehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-17037802059024804972017-06-24T18:09:42.465-07:002017-06-24T18:09:42.465-07:00Stumbled on this blog and having recently purchase...Stumbled on this blog and having recently purchased a pair of BD sabertooth thought a comment was in order. First brand new the front points are rounded off so I don't think your photos of wear rates are particularly alarming to me. They fit my Mt Blanch boots like a glove and for me that is the most important thing to look for. The fractures are however quite concerning but luckily I'm a light weight and will just have to keep an eye out for early warning signs. The market is probably too small to pay for testing but it would be ideal if there was some standard for stress testing all crampons and a rating awarded Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14858328440012561404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-14035430447824887542013-10-25T10:54:25.195-07:002013-10-25T10:54:25.195-07:00Thanks Ian. I do find the durability/relaibility ...Thanks Ian. I do find the durability/relaibility of the older crampons interesting compared to some that are available now. First crampon I had seen with a binding was stuck in the ice just above the Difficult Crack on the Eiger. Just one mind you. Not a pair :)Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-86629157027609361012013-10-25T10:31:00.153-07:002013-10-25T10:31:00.153-07:00Dane,
I have had the same Selewa crampons as in yo...Dane,<br />I have had the same Selewa crampons as in your picture since the '70s, lots of vertical ice and Scottish peaks and no problems. The points have lost 4 or 5 mm with sharpening (to a chisel point). I have just replaced them with a newer same pair from ebay. <br />Don't like the modern toe/heel bale centre-bar design, seen more than one centre-bar fracture. The crampon then comes completely off, very dangerous on steep ice. The Selewas have 6 top strap posts that brace the boot laterally, so they don't need a laterally stiff centre-bar as on the toe/heel bale type to avoid the crampon coming out of the bales (my son had this embarrassment, fortunately I had him on belay at the time), and two separate straps, so you will always have half a crampon left to get out of trouble with. <br />Thanks for the article! - IanIannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-52547722740001340662011-11-29T18:50:40.927-08:002011-11-29T18:50:40.927-08:00A shame I stumbled onto Cold Thistle AFTER I bough...A shame I stumbled onto Cold Thistle AFTER I bought a pair of the SS Sabretooths last spring. After concluding their 10th ice season (w/ 2 Bolivian expeditions thrown in) my old cromo Sabres are looking a bit beat up. Now the hard choice: try the new SS Sabres or bite the bullet and ditch them for something else. A shame - like you, I think the Sabretooth is one of best crampon designs I've used. On the other hand, I'm 59 and unlikely to heal quickly if I take a winger from a busted crampon.Illimani94noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-86586823253276129272011-11-28T20:02:34.704-08:002011-11-28T20:02:34.704-08:00What's your opinion of the current generation ...What's your opinion of the current generation BD Cyborg? Stainless frame, standard steel (chrome-moly?) front points? Could be a reasonable compromise...jhh60https://www.blogger.com/profile/15028080976090184826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-43665343371642963682011-09-18T08:07:17.398-07:002011-09-18T08:07:17.398-07:00FWIW... saw one broken sabertooth (SS)very new her...FWIW... saw one broken sabertooth (SS)very new here in the adirondacks...<br /><br /><br />a very good site in general Dane...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-76883748079995331742011-08-28T08:50:19.617-07:002011-08-28T08:50:19.617-07:00Magnus, glad you found the problem with a loop and...Magnus, glad you found the problem with a loop and not on lead. Thanks for the feed back.<br /><br />Wyatt? sandvik-nanoflex? My take is, a good alloy was used but a poor design. They saved weight by using a thinner material. So thin the crampon now flexs. Problem with all this is hitting a price point that climbers will pay for.<br /><br />Again just an opinion, but some where along the line climbing gear started being designed for price not for the end user.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-60220092296003106672011-08-28T06:10:07.820-07:002011-08-28T06:10:07.820-07:00Hi Dane,
Just took my 10x scale lupe to the suscep...Hi Dane,<br />Just took my 10x scale lupe to the susceptible areas of my ss sabretooth crampons. Yes there is an incipient crack between the outer front point and second point on my left crampon.<br /><br />Used maybe 20 days for single pitch water ice and trad mixed last season.<br /><br />Wear, about the same as yours from the Cosmiques.<br /><br />Oh, I'm a lightweight, 60kg<br /><br />Regards<br />MagnusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-4656527462733508872011-08-28T00:36:57.739-07:002011-08-28T00:36:57.739-07:00So what IS the deal with Sandvik Nanoflex? Is it ...So what IS the deal with Sandvik Nanoflex? Is it just marketing BS? Are their claims at http://www.camp-usa.com/product-highlights/forum/sandvik-nanoflex.asp#stronger true? They downplay the importance of rust resistance, but I wonder why they chose to use a stainless based material? Personally, I don't find the Vector Nanotechs to be that much lighter than a crampon like the Dart, and the shape is poorly designed for climbing, but I have to admit the steel is ridiculously hard. Does this material have promise?Wyattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-51806276527110824812011-08-27T16:15:19.612-07:002011-08-27T16:15:19.612-07:00I've heard it called the Passarelle gully, but...I've heard it called the Passarelle gully, but I think that is just another name for the Cunningham Coulior.<br /><br />It is the first and shortest gully on the north side of the gully under the bridge (passarelle). <br /><br />It is feed buy the WC in the Midi tunnel system. Which makes for some brittle ice :)<br /><br />No clue on the rating.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-92104857786993081632011-08-27T14:32:50.376-07:002011-08-27T14:32:50.376-07:00"Fun to see BD sponsored, Colin Haley climbin..."Fun to see BD sponsored, Colin Haley climbing on the Midi in the Sabertooth." <br /><br />- What is the name/grade of the route? Looks fun!<br /><br />BR, Icenoob.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-56214952713658618062011-08-27T12:12:12.224-07:002011-08-27T12:12:12.224-07:00"It's a bit misleading to lump BD and CAM..."It's a bit misleading to lump BD and CAMP together when discussing the use of stainless in crampons. The design and materials are entirely different"<br /><br />Agreed and never intended to make the comparison as they (BD and Camp) use totally different stainless alloys and designs for the crampon frames. <br /><br />When you start making general statements like "it's worth pointing out that *some* steels with stainless properties can be harder and more durable than chromoly" you have missed the conversaion. Because any steel can be bettered depending on application required.<br /><br />Better to compare the tools..as in crampons durability...in this particular case the BD stainles is not holding up to the intended use. <br /><br />BTW...I do like modular crampons. Just not for every use. Crampons are just tools, like a hammer. I own a lot of different style hammers. And happy that I have the options when one is required :)Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-5294531363308938212011-08-27T11:54:00.065-07:002011-08-27T11:54:00.065-07:00It's a bit misleading to lump BD and CAMP toge...It's a bit misleading to lump BD and CAMP together when discussing the use of stainless in crampons. The design and materials are entirely different. You may not like modular crampons, which is a different discussion (and a point of disagreement), so their Vector Nano isn't for you. And their XLC Nano certainly isn't for mixed climbing. But it's worth pointing out that *some* steels with stainless properties can be harder and more durable than chromoly. And they can make an excellent crampon that is lighter. Note the Vector uses hot-forged chromoly front points and the vertical frame is a Sandvik steel.<br /><br />BTW Alan, I ditched all my Wusthoff and Henckels for Japanese brands you may not have heard of but are far, far superior. No faux-Damascus cladding or other gimmicky designs. But as Dane said, that's outside of this blog's scope.Clydenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-33589934014695844912011-08-25T21:27:36.041-07:002011-08-25T21:27:36.041-07:00Hey Dane,
Thanks for the post. It helps to clarif...Hey Dane,<br /><br />Thanks for the post. It helps to clarify things for those of us who have slightly less understanding about materials. Additionally, it is important as a climber to know your materials fairly well.<br /><br />I had noticed that the new BD crampons all have a smaller footprint, which is a bane for guys like me who have size 14-15 boots.<br /><br />I have a stainless pair of Sabretooths, and while I do love the design, I have noticed that they wear quickly. I mixed climb a ton and those stainless crampon frontpoints are only going to last me one more season (for a whopping total of 2 seasons) They've only been sharpened once or twice but wear very rapidly.<br /><br />I've broken a lot of BD picks too, like many others, and feel that there are probably manufacturing flaws at fault there. A few seasons ago I went through 3 pairs of BD picks in one season (they bent, broke or wore out fast, in some cases cracking at the tip immediately!). Conversely, forged Petzl picks routinely last me more than a season, and while they do bend I've yet to snap one (I have broken the frames on a pair of forged Grivel G-14's though).<br /><br />While I do like a lot of the BD stuff (I love the Cobra's despite prematurely worn picks) I think they're working the advertising angle pretty hard and anticipating that things will mostly go their way due to the fact that many users don't use gear all that often or harshly.<br /><br />Thanks again and keep up the great work!!Ryan Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-1733385898017189942011-08-25T18:58:08.715-07:002011-08-25T18:58:08.715-07:00First time visitor, and instant convert - looking ...First time visitor, and instant convert - looking forward to going through all your back posts in search of further inspiration.Chris (i-cjw.com)http://i-cjw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-78419877021649656692011-08-25T18:46:59.231-07:002011-08-25T18:46:59.231-07:00thank you thank you!!! This was very informative!
...thank you thank you!!! This was very informative!<br />I love the pics you posted of the Damascus steel, so artistic, so like wood.<br />I do not know a lot about crampon and gun steel ,but I know a fair amount about kitchen knives. Anything from ceramic to steel.marcellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904479520337525323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-3242120511029326212011-08-25T14:17:23.964-07:002011-08-25T14:17:23.964-07:00Good thing too, as you old guys? We'd just sho...Good thing too, as you old guys? We'd just shoot ya anyway once ya break a leg ;)Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-16075904278333893072011-08-25T14:01:05.465-07:002011-08-25T14:01:05.465-07:00Great write up Dane and btw if my crampons fail me...Great write up Dane and btw if my crampons fail me while climbing and survive I'll take them out back and shoot them.fultonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07572352625575091866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-55314162220688222432011-08-25T08:14:39.942-07:002011-08-25T08:14:39.942-07:00Useful article. It bears noting that stainless ste...Useful article. It bears noting that stainless steel DOES oxidize, albeit differently. Cheap stainless will certainly "stain" and, importantly, pit. These deep divots are stress concentrators and sources of microcracks. Not a big deal for your IKEA picnicware, but important for the business end of a torqued foot placement.<br /><br />Somewhat like crampons, (machine)tool steel must also remain sharp while subjected to enormous stresses and is NEVER made from stainless steels.Richnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-58682992254035485722011-08-25T06:35:08.998-07:002011-08-25T06:35:08.998-07:00Thanks for a very informative article Dane. I'...Thanks for a very informative article Dane. I'm not giving up my chromoly Cyborgs any time soon.Julianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17418359111867504412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-74175126622716602162011-08-25T00:58:23.982-07:002011-08-25T00:58:23.982-07:00A well informed article Dane, I shared your concer...A well informed article Dane, I shared your concerns when I first saw the BD advertising train set off a year or so ago. The use of stainless in my opinion is about bling and built in obsolescence rather than the correct choice of material. I am a metallurgy graduate and ex steel worker so I have a rudimentary understanding here, albeit from a hazy 20yrs ago. Hats off to grivel and pretzyl for not jumping on the bandwagon, yet.<br /><br />A little material knowledge goes a long way; a friend's grivel axe pick suffered a fatigue failure, I was able to identify this, a visibly large inclusion at the stress concentrator between teeth. Route completed with a bit more work, new axe from grivel (hats off again).<br /><br />I mentioned the other day about building a prototype perfect pon. Obviously, no coating on these or perhaps the old chalk and ink NDT to prove there are no cracks?<br /><br />All the bestIan Armstrongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-3970972504718327012011-08-25T00:06:47.273-07:002011-08-25T00:06:47.273-07:00Sorry Alen this would be a never ending thread if ...Sorry Alen this would be a never ending thread if we get into knives and steels. Chromoly is different than Carbon steel. And most knives will be carbon steel alloys not Chromoly alloys. Firearms are generally chromoly, knives are not.<br /><br />More here on carbon:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel<br /><br />But no question *in general* either can be sharper than the typical stainless. But there are some really good knife stainless steels as well. Like many things it just takes more money :) <br /><br />Th problem with talking steels *in general terms* is the more specific the answer the more likely you are to be wrong.<br /><br />Knife steel is another animal than the discussion on the blog. But "hard" as in stainless knife steel is difficult to sharpen because it is physically hard. Carbon steel is easy to sharpen because it is physically soft. Same reason you can get a carbon steel knife sharper than you can a stainless knife. The thinner the edge the sharper the tool and likely the shorter the time the knife will stay sharp.<br /><br />Obsidian knives are the sharpest because they can be napped toan incredibly thin glass edge. "Because of this lack of crystal structure, obsidian blade edges can reach almost molecular thinness".<br /><br />How long a knife edge lasts depends on the edge bevel you can obtain. A wide V edge wil last a long time but never be very sharp. A long narrow V edge will be very sharp but not last very long. Hardness and steel toughness being equal on both.<br /><br />Just don't get all that confused thinking it will apply to crampon steel. It doesn't.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300760603627210620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6940163880772720830.post-56805880786625126482011-08-24T23:34:20.737-07:002011-08-24T23:34:20.737-07:00Might I take a moment of your time for a question ...Might I take a moment of your time for a question that is entirely unrelated to crampons? Knife steel. As a not particularly educated kitchen knife user, I hear peple referring to "stainless" and "carbon steel". Is "carbon steel" the same as "chromoly"? Or is there a whole other class of knife that I am too dowmarket to be aware of?<br /><br />Most of my kitchen knifes are still stainless, albeit decent stainless (Wüsthoff, Global). I bought some cheap carbon steel knives to expermiment with: a Mora, an Opinel, a couple of little cheapie German paring knives. I find they're great, and the little carbon paring knives have quickly become my most used everyday knives in the kitchen. Next on the agenda: a bigger Japanese "carbon steel" knife. <br /><br />But the thing I've noticed, and like, about the non-stainless knives, is how *easily* I can get a very good edge on them. I don't understand how that can be compatible with them beng harder.AlanLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04820194790550072204noreply@blogger.com